Wander Woman: A Travel Podcast
Shifting Sands
Saudi Arabia is a controversial place - one that for years was closed off to westerners without a special invite. But that all changed in 2019 with the announcement of a new tourist visa and a huge investment in infrastructure - beginning with the north-western oasis city of Alula. So far, most travellers have been Instagram influencers, keen to get 'that' shot of Elephant Rock or the infinity pool at Habitas. But Wander Woman Phoebe Smith is determined to skew the surface glitz, head off piste and dig deeper to discover if tourism really has made a difference to the local women who live there. Following in the footsteps of her late grandmother, who journeyed to Saudi in 1987, her guide is the diary her granny kept, a constant source of comparison between then and now. Never afraid to ask questions, probe deeper and seek answers, Phoebe asks - is tourism helping the women of Saudi to break trail?
Also coming up:
How you can enjoy a stress-free visit to Saudi Arabia; meet the woman working as part of a team to bring back the Arabian leopard; discover how best to dress to comfortably go from souk to sand; 10 reasons to consider a visit to Alula; hear about TV historian Bettany Hughes' love of all things Nabatean; Wander Woman of the Month – the first British born Muslim woman who made a pilgrimage to Mecca – Zainab Cobbold (aka Lady Evelyn Murray).
www.Phoebe-Smith.com; @PhoebeRSmith
Saudi Arabia is a controversial place - one that for years was closed off to westerners without a special invite. But that all changed in 2019 with the announcement of a new tourist visa and a huge investment in infrastructure - beginning with the north-western oasis city of Alula. So far, most travellers have been Instagram influencers, keen to get 'that' shot of Elephant Rock or the infinity pool at Habitas. But Wander Woman Phoebe Smith is determined to skew the surface glitz, head off piste and dig deeper to discover if tourism really has made a difference to the local women who live there. Following in the footsteps of her late grandmother, who journeyed to Saudi in 1987, her guide is the diary her granny kept, a constant source of comparison between then and now. Never afraid to ask questions, probe deeper and seek answers, Phoebe asks - is tourism helping the women of Saudi to break trail?
Also coming up:
How you can enjoy a stress-free visit to Saudi Arabia; meet the woman working as part of a team to bring back the Arabian leopard; discover how best to dress to comfortably go from souk to sand; 10 reasons to consider a visit to Alula; hear about TV historian Bettany Hughes' love of all things Nabatean; Wander Woman of the Month – the first British born Muslim woman who made a pilgrimage to Mecca – Zainab Cobbold (aka Lady Evelyn Murray).
www.Phoebe-Smith.com; @PhoebeRSmith
On this month's Wander Woman podcast.
Speaker 2:them and ask them questions, but I couldn't.
Speaker 1:I journey to Saudi Arabia with my late grandmother's diary in hand to see how things have changed for women in the nearly 40 years since her visit. I also catch up with TV historian Bettany Hughes, who recently visited the Saudi Nabataean site and discovered an important female legacy: Definitely women were responsible for building the civilizations and the cultures that helped to make it such a successful place in the ancient world. And I meet the woman who is part of the team working to bring back the Arabian leopard.
Speaker 4:I know it's very big things because when I was growing up my dad, he told me about the wildlife and to remember all the species we had.
Speaker 1:Also coming up. My regular travel hack shares how you can enjoy a stress-free visit to Saudi Arabia. My regular travel hack shares how you can enjoy a stress-free visit to Saudi Arabia. In my travel gear section, discover how best to dress to go seamlessly from souk to sand. And, as this episode's podcast partner is the Royal Commission for Alula, I address the elephant in the room with my 10 reasons why you should consider a visit. Finally, I'll be revealing this episode's Wander Woman of the month, the traveller whose name is lost in the history books. You're listening to the Wander Woman podcast, an audio travel magazine with me, adventurer Phoebe Smith, exploring off-the-beaten-track destinations, wild spaces, wildlife encounters and the unsung heroes behind conservation efforts. Come wander with me.
Speaker 2:As we approached the Arabian Peninsula, the darkness was very intense. Except for a crescent moon which shone just before we landed, there were no lights on the ground.
Speaker 1:So wrote my late grandmother in her diary back in 1987, when she embarked on a journey to Saudi Arabia. She was 50 years old and going to visit her son, my uncle, who worked for a petrochemical company based out there. Until 2019, without a special invitation, like she got, the only people who were permitted to visit the country were expatriates and business people working there, and Muslims travelling to make pilgrimage to Mecca. I'll never forget, some years later, when she showed the niqab she had to wear, covering everything but her eyes and describing the endless desert that surrounded her. I was mesmerised about this place I would never get to visit, but then, in 2019, everything changed.
Speaker 1:Tourist visas began to be issued and finally it was my turn to explore. Tourist visas began to be eschewed and finally it was my turn to explore... I was in Alula, a place in the northwest of Saudi Arabia, 200km from the Red Sea, and a key location on the Incense Route, which was a trading trail that linked Arabia with the Mediterranean between 3 BC and 2 AD. It's become famous more recently, however, on Instagram, with influencers queuing to make videos wandering alongside the infinity pool of the Habitas Hotel, strolling the streets of Old Town in long floaty dresses or watching sunset by Elephant Rock, yet nothing I'd seen had shone a light on the place's biggest and most controversial mystery the women who live there.
Speaker 5:My name is and I'll be your rawi or your storyteller for our journey today.
Speaker 1:This was perhaps my first surprise. first site I visited Dadan, the 2,500 to 3,000-year-old rock-cleaved former capital of the region. My guide was a woman.
Speaker 2:Back in the 80s my granny had written.
Speaker 1:Yet here I was with a female guide, chaperoneless, being shown an ancient site which, perhaps ironically, it has been discovered, was home to a society where men and women were both equal, something it's thought is not the case when it comes to Saudi Arabia. Today, I asked , aged 29, who was wearing a niqab and a baya something that is no longer officially required since 2019, about her journey to becoming a Rawi, aka a storyteller, here in Alula. Here's how our conversation went: You're 29, so when you were a kid, I'm guessing not many women were tour guides. It wasn't a thing. So was it a big deal as a woman to say I'm going to become a tour guide?
Speaker 5:Nowadays yes.
Speaker 1:Especially for me here in Alula. It's worth it. Yeah, yeah, but but was it rare for a woman when you were growing up?
Speaker 5:no, no, no, because I kept uh traveling inside saudi arabia and I saw a lot of women who are working as tour guides yeah, but inside saudi arabia it was it was rare yeah, no, no, we have you always had yes, but it's like not familiar and not famous even for men here. Yeah, yeah, but nowadays with the explosion of tourism here, it becomes more, more known here.
Speaker 1:and what about your family? Have you got brothers and sisters? Only brothers, only brothers. What did they think about you becoming a Rawi?
Speaker 5:they had no problem with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, instead they were just encouraging me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the same with friends and people you knew. There's been no kind of pushback on women becoming the Rawi. No, no, okay. I have to step in here and say that 's assertion that Saudi has always had female tour guides isn't something I can find a record of myself. I can confirm that a woman in Jeddah started to try and make it possible back in 2011 and got one of the first few permissions in 2017 from the Islamic Research and Studies Centre to supervise tour groups during theme-based trips. But other than that, it appears the first official female tour guides were only allowed after 2019, when the government began investing one trillion dollars in the tourism industry to hopefully gain 100 million visitors by 2030 as part of their efforts to reduce their reliance on fossil fuels.
Speaker 1:Alula, with its history, landmarks and old town, is a key part of this mission. insisted it was a profession she was readily accepted into and I was glad, though a little surprised, to hear it, as that's certainly not been everyone's experience here. Prior to my trip, I read on Orato an online interview with one of the first female tour guides in Alula, who said she and her family faced death threats because of her chosen career. I had tried to get an interview with her, but she chose not to speak to me as she was moving to another career path. But I did meet other guides who gave me some insight.
Speaker 7:I had someone recommended the job of Rawi to me. I was like wondering what Rawi is. It's a new thing actually to, because tourism is a new idea in Saudi in general. They were like just to share the history and the story of Al-Ula with the tourists here. I was like why not? Of course it's fun, it's really fun actually.
Speaker 1:This is Wadad, a Rawi, who guided me around the lush, water-fed oasis which helped decide the location of Al-Ula town way back. She's from here herself and she wears an abaya and hijab, but no niqab. I tried asking her what does it mean to you to be a woman who does this job?
Speaker 7:It's actually quite fun that people think it's really funny. It's people who think that I'm the first generation to work from my family. But it's not. Actually, women in general were even before, before, you know, they had the rules. They played major roles in Saudi my teachers, of course, most of them, were, you know, women of course. So we're not the first generation of women to work, first generation of women to work. People are happy to see the Saudi women, you know, standing in front of them, share another side of the story, other than a male, let's say, rawi. It's nice and it's to clear some misconception as well about the Saudi women as well, rather than what was in the past.
Speaker 1:Women were allowed to work in Saudi prior to 2019, but options were definitely limited. Mainly, it was a choice between teaching or nursing, and then only to girls and other women. Driving was strictly forbidden until June 24, 2018, and with a chaperone needed for women, it was impractical to do much else. Certainly, tour guiding would have been virtually impossible. Now there were many more job options open, as I discovered. That afternoon, Wadad led me to the Old Town, a maze of 900 mud houses, 500 shops and counting and five public squares. My granny wrote.
Speaker 2:The old parts of town are a reminder of a bygone age. The houses made from mud and chopped straw and faced with a smooth mud finish, often decorated with a row of triangles.
Speaker 1:When I wandered on my own along the main street, where many mud houses have been transformed into thriving businesses, I saw an older woman who, with the help of a passing guide to translate, I realised owned and ran her own stall.
Speaker 8:Five years ago, when she had the permit to open her own booth. She applied and got accepted. And here we go.
Speaker 1:And has the ability for women to own and operate a booth. Is that a new thing with the whole tourism opening up, or was that allowed before?
Speaker 8:So she's saying that it was allowed, but it wasn't very common for women to own and operate their own shops.
Speaker 1:What has the opening of Alula and Saudi to Western tourists? What has that meant for your business?
Speaker 8:She said that she had, if I can rephrase, she had more business and more people coming in, which is the natural.
Speaker 1:And she's from Alula, so obviously she's seen the change in her lifetime. Do most local people. Is it a positive thing? They see that they're getting more tourists coming in now?
Speaker 8:She's saying that the people are happy and enjoying and everyone wants to see the development of the place.
Speaker 1:And it didn't end there. That evening I dined in a restaurant called Tawalat Fayza, inspired by the Saudi dishes date salad, okra, tajan cauliflower and baba ghanoush of the owner's grandmother. But perhaps more exciting was that afterwards I met a woman called Maitha, who was a head chef at the newly opened Da Tantora hotel and restaurant in the old town. She was wearing neither an abaya, niqab or hijab. She invited me into her home to meet her mother. There she laid out a spread of food while her mother poured endless cups of tea, and she talked about the opportunities for her and others since the establishment of tourism.
Speaker 9:Since 2019, when the RCU, like established here in Al-Ula, as I said, the Crown Prince, have this vision for the young youth of Al-Ula to be involved in tourism and especially like culinary and food and to be also not just Alula , I mean in whole Saudi Arabia like we're starting to finding this our identity with food.
Speaker 1:I loved how Maitha was talking of exploring her identity with food. Her restaurant blends Arabic specialties with a spanish twist, and I love the idea of this merging of cultures too. Her mother explained through Maitha's translation how this was never a job she thought her daughter could have.
Speaker 9:You know my mum. She's from different generation so like she understand like cooking as like a housewife. You know, yeah, she assumed I'm cooking in that way, in the kitchen, but I have to explain to her working in the kitchen is totally different than cooking at home, you know, yeah, so we had this conversation before, but now she understands really what I'm doing and she fully supports it.
Speaker 1:Her final words to me, unprompted, perhaps left the biggest impression.
Speaker 9:Now, after our vision, it's like you have endless opportunities, especially for women. I mean, from my own experience, I never apply for a job and I never get it, you know.
Speaker 9:Mm-hmm so that it's like amazing, like big, like growing up, I would like think Maybe I will be a teacher that's what, what's in my mind, you know. So, or maybe I will be, I will open my Shop and like a tea shop or whatever you know. So that's what was my thoughts like growing up, but then, like all doors open, so it's very like very nice journey you know to have. Yeah, it's like to be part of the history. It's very amazing.
Speaker 1:The next day I continued my adventure. I visited Hegra, the site that rivals Jordan's Petra in terms of Nabataean culture, sandstone, carved tombs and still some untouched archaeological finds. Then, 30 minutes away, I went to visit a school of traditional arts where students, mainly local women, are being taught how to paint, weave, make pottery and crafts taking inspiration from Alula and their own culture. The visiting artists were mainly international, but I was pleased to see the teacher of the foundation course was a local woman called Betli Al-Hazmi. She wore a hijab, but no niqab. She didn't speak English, but her colleague translated for me that she had started here three years ago as a student and now was a tutor and has her own successful craft shop. What has it meant to you, this whole process, this experience, learning and now being a teacher? Has it changed your life in any way?
Speaker 6:Definitely this has changed my life way. Definitely this has changed my life. There was something hidden inside her and now everyone can see what was hidden. Before her art, her creativity, was only for her or for close people. Now everyone can see and can learn and this is the most important thing that she can teach them. She taught now of four generations, so she's very happy. She said that some, some of the girls, actually start their own business embroidery business.
Speaker 1:After this? Yes, after doing this, yeah, so do you think for women, then it's quite liberating. Learning this Does it open doors for women that perhaps wouldn't be without doing this?
Speaker 6:doing this and she always, always tell them that she is the example. She went through all this process and she used to be a student and after that she created her, started her shop and now she became a teacher. So she, she's the most most wonderful example.
Speaker 1:That afternoon I headed back into the wadi to experience a horse ride.
Speaker 2:When my granny visited this terrain, with my uncle driving, of course, she wrote there seems to be nothing near this old highway, but very interesting terrain with rocks and caves that feel like we're on the moon.
Speaker 1:Sat on top of a horse. I gazed at the scenery here now in the Asher Valley, pillars of rocky towers, crumbling buttresses of sandstone and endless winding pathways. Crissing and crossing through the sand, I noticed a woman on this tour who was Saudi, but wearing western clothes. Afterwards I stopped to chat to her and found out she had just competed in a horse contest here, despite only learning how to ride a couple of years earlier. Her name was Al-Anud Mohammed and I asked her what made her get on a horse.
Speaker 10:I started riding horse because I got some depression in my life, so I chose some way to forget all the problems I found myself on the horse.
Speaker 1:And how do you find it when you're on the horse? Describe the feeling.
Speaker 10:The feeling I feel I'm strong. This is the feeling what I want. Feel I'm strong, I'm free.
Speaker 9:I feel the power energy and peaceful yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And is it quite popular or quite common for Saudi women to horse ride?
Speaker 10:actually it's popular because in the past many, many years the women here actually they're riding horse, so it's normal, but I don't know what happened for a generation. But now we're coming to horse riding. There is a lot of girls.
Speaker 1:So, for instance, your parents' generation, would your mum have ridden horses? No, no, it wouldn't be something would she have been allowed to? Or just culturally?
Speaker 10:not. They don't think about the horse riding, they think about education. Get a job marry, have kids. But now everything's changed.
Speaker 1:She told me she would eventually like to become a horse riding guide. There are now a few women doing this here. I hope next time I go there she will be leading others around the wadis. My final exploration of Alula would see me headed out into the wadi further still.
Speaker 2:When my granny went on her small exploration in these moon-like valleys, she wrote About halfway there, we decided to drive off the road on very firm sand towards the entrance to a cave sculpted out of the ridge in the desert. I wish we could explore, but we have to head back to the camp.
Speaker 1:I headed off the road on firm-ish sand into the Sharaan Nature Reserve, an area earmarked for the possible reintroduction of the Arabian leopard. Unlike my granny, I could stay and explore With my guide. I head deeper inside the labyrinth of rocks that grow longer and deeper until Welcome to .
Speaker 1:My guide takes us to small patches of water surrounded by ever so verdant green. We listen to birdsong echoing within the chasm of rock. He shows me rock art and to end the adventure, we head out of the reserve to pitch tents on the edge of it. That night, without a chaperone in sight, I sit with just two male Saudi guides doing what campers all over the world enjoy doing stargazing. So the plough is like a saucepan and the end of it the two line up and you should follow it like five times that, and the north side should be over there, and then Cassiopeia would be the other side, but behind all this thanks for telling me.
Speaker 4:This is my first time I know the the plough, the plough, yeah, and the north side is going to be in between Between Cassiopeia and the plough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, beneath the light from the stars, we ate hot food over a campfire, talked about adventures past before turning in for bed in the wilds of Alula's Wadi. My granny would have thought it was just a dream, and in her lifetime it did remain just that.
Speaker 2:She ended her diary by saying: Altogether a strange and remote country, one where, thankfully, the vastness of the desert has still not been encroached on by all the oil installations and pipelines. Still, I think, though money has brought them many home comforts, the mode of life has not changed much overall, especially for women.
Speaker 1:But I want to end my exploration with a chance encounter with a final guide called Jemana, who I met when I was grabbing a coffee before headed to the airport. We chatted about what I'd seen, what I'd found, and I couldn't resist asking her: What would you say life really is like as a woman in Saudi doing your job?
Speaker 11:Yeah, everything is a changeable. And now, yeah, everything, alhamdulillah, has changed. I do I agree. It's like this before, in different areas, but not all of Saudi. But now a Saudi woman can do anything she wants and, yeah, we can meet people. We are not controlled, we have our freedom, we have our voice.
Speaker 1:And what about your parents? Because they've obviously seen a bigger change over their lifetime. Do you think they ever imagined they'd have a daughter who would be doing the job you're doing?
Speaker 11:No, they don't, but they're very supportive, alhamdulillah, yeah, they're supportive and they have no issue. If this makes me happy and helps me to know what I want, it's okay for me to do it. Do you mind me asking how old?
Speaker 1:you are no 26. 26. And within your lifetime, has anything changed? In Saudi, being a girl, being a woman, has anything that you can do that you couldn't do before? Has any of that changed?
Speaker 11:Yeah, first of all, the the driving in Saudi, for example, and traveling abroad without without a male. What else? There is a lot to change, but this is the main things I think. Now we have our freedom. After, I think, 21 or 24, you can do anything. You are by yourself. Even your parents can't control you does it feel?
Speaker 1:does it feel liberating? Does it feel different? What does it feel like?
Speaker 11:Yeah, it feels like, thanks God, I have the power to do whatever I want and, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:That was me in Alula, Saudi Arabia. When my granny visited in the 80s, she didn't think change could happen, but then she didn't think her granddaughter, 37 years later, would be wild camping alone with two male locals chatting like friends, with far more in common than different. Alula is truly a beautiful place, full of pristine fragments of history, but, like the rest of Saudi, it is also as complex as its history too. To some it is too controversial to consider a travel destination, and I get that. But I've also seen first-hand the rapid changes in opportunities that tourism is bringing, particularly to women. It's a country so new to tourism and some things need to be questioned and challenged, and in my experience I would still not recommend, as a solo female traveller, getting into a situation where you are left alone with a male who is not an official guide traveller, getting into a situation where you are left alone with a male who is not an official guide and ensure you book excursions and activities through experiencealula. com, the official tourism site. But it is only through cultural exchange, through travellers like me and you, who go to a place and are prepared to ask difficult questions, who point out problems and don't take everything at face value, that travel really can be a force for good, as so many local women told me. The beginning of the tourism has suddenly opened doors of opportunities for us, ones that we thought would always remain closed. Let's hope this is the start of a new dawn for Alula and Saudi as a whole and, of course, the women whose stories brought this place to life.
Speaker 1:Tempted to peer into this previously secret destination, feeling a little worried about the prospect, I've got you with this month's travel hack. For years, we weren't even allowed to contemplate a visit to Saudi Arabia, but following the launching of the tourist visa in 2019, the country has opened up. But how easy is it to get there, to get around, and is it safe? Find out in this episode's travel hack how to have a stress-free visit to Saudi. Firstly, let's talk admin. Get your e-visa first. British citizens and many others can get their visa at the airport, but it's time-consuming and, frankly, who wants to get off a plane and join another queue and fiddle about with an iPad? Take the hassle out of arrival by going to visitsaudicom, enter your nationality and choose to purchase an e-visa. The price at the time of publishing this podcast is about £83, sar 395. It's a multiple entry visa valid for a year from its issue date and allows for stays of up to 90 days. Arriving with this already done makes going through immigration quick and easy, so the exploration can commence. Which brings me to my second hack for a trip Download the Kaiian app on your phone.
Speaker 1:That's K-A-I-I-A-N. It's basically Uber for Saudi Arabia and is the best way to get around, especially if you're not with a local guide, which, by the way, is another hack. Get one, as you will learn so much more. The Cayenne app is specifically for Saudi, and the drivers pride themselves on making the trip as comfortable as possible. Another hack is to book your restaurants and hotels in advance. There aren't that many yet, especially in the more rural areas like Alula, so they do book fast and on any given night of the week. Well-known restaurants in particular, book up a few days in advance. So plan ahead and don't miss a meal at this incredible hot spot.
Speaker 1:This is a hack for anywhere you go, but learning a few words of basic Arabic before you go will go a long way. I found the people in Alula to be unerringly friendly, but a smattering of Arabic will endear you to them even more. Here's a quick taster Nam is yes, la is no, minfaldik is please and shukran is thank you. It's also worth considering when you'll be travelling to Saudi Arabia. There are four clear seasons In summer, you'll want to be heading to the coast, while winter is a great time to visit the cities or head out exploring Alula. In spring, riyadh is mild and a good option, while autumn tends to remain warm, with mild evenings. Note also that many things shut down during Ramadan, so check this before you go and, finally, remember to travel with an open mind, no matter where you go.
Speaker 1:That was my Wander Woman travel hack the special insight I offer each episode based on many years of travel experiences. Now, speaking of many years of travel, my next guest has a travel CV that would put even mine to shame and, what's more, when she travels, she doesn't only travel through place, but time as well. This episode I chat to TV historian and author, Bettany Hughes about maps, Alula and why Nabataean women were so kick-ass. This episode is a real focus on Alula in Saudi Arabia, which is somewhere that I journeyed to because I found my my late grandmother's diary. She went in the 80s, so I was following in the footsteps of her and I understand you've been to Alula too, so can you tell me a little bit about your experience and whose footsteps maybe you were traveling in?
Speaker 3:yeah, well, well, a kind of mixture. So I've been obsessed with the Nabataeans for decades. So the Nabataeans are this amazing early culture in what was ancient Arabia who famously they're the civilization and culture that built Petra, and often that's the only thing that people know about them is that they were responsible for building Petra. But I knew that they were really influential, that the Greeks and the Romans tangled with them, that they're around at the time of a lot of the writings in the Bible come from, and that they changed history. You know that they were these real engine drivers of history.
Speaker 3:So I've always wanted to tell their story and it's been very difficult, as you know, to get into Saudi Arabia previously, but now that it's starting very difficult, as you know, to get into Saudi Arabia previously, but now that it's starting to open up it meant I could go to these incredible places, alila, I mean, you know you spent time there as well. It's just extraordinary. I mean it's so such an extraordinary place. So, um, I wanted to go there to kind of witness for myself the civilization of of these you know, these amazing people, and particularly because, as far as we know, at the moment, alula is the furthest south, that we have a really serious city, a Nabataean city. I mean, as an archaeologist and historian, never say never, there's always some new bit of evidence, you know, that appears, which is great.
Speaker 3:So we have to rewrite history the whole time. But at the moment, with the evidence that we have, it seems to be that evidence, you know, that appears so, which is great. So we have to rewrite history the whole time. But at the moment, with the evidence that we have, it seems to be that you know, the furthest big city, um, in the south. So you, I've been to petra in the north. I've gone to see where the nabateans hung out, near pompeii in italy, in the bay of naples, because they had a quarter in this place, called pozzoli putiolioli in ancient Latin, which was a really important port for them, where they'd import a lot of the incense that they were bringing with them from the Arabian Peninsula. So I'd done the whole journey and it was just the middle bit.
Speaker 2:Saudi.
Speaker 3:Arabia, that was missing.
Speaker 1:The missing piece of the puzzle? Yeah, exactly, and I remember so. In Alula, in that Nabataean site that you were saying, they had a really interesting display. Well, they've found the tomb that belonged to this woman and they'd kind of reconstructed her. What do we know about that culture then, in terms of because obviously you think Saudi, saudi Arabia, it's quite a tricky place when you think of women, women's rights, what women are allowed to do and not do. How would that have been back in the times of the Nabataeans?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I mean, that's what's so important about history, is it often tells you know a fresh narrative, or it tells a kind of foundation narrative for a place, and what it seems is that in Nabataean culture, women were incredibly strong, and we know this largely from the archaeological evidence. So, for instance, on the coins of the kings you often have the queen represented as well. So there's a king called Aratas IV and his queen, huldu, is also represented on the coin. It seems as though women were dedicating tombs and paying for them and they were then being buried there with their households, and there's almost a common sense thing about the Nabataeans.
Speaker 3:So what the Nabataeans did, basically, they were, like uber, importers and exporters of all kinds of things, but particularly incense from the far south and bitumen, which is a kind of petrochemical of the ancient world, and they almost had a monopoly on importing and exporting and trading these incredibly precious goods.
Speaker 3:And if you think about it, those are traveling on huge camel caravans, you know camel caravans of hundreds, possibly thousands of camels and their traders, and it's men who are doing that, that travel. So if all the men are outside the city trading, then it's really likely that the women who are left behind are going to have status and standing, and that's what we think happened. It's almost it's been described to me as kind of you have to imagine sort of Europe during World War One, when so many men went off to fight and to serve and actually that, in a way, was quite liberating for the women in that they had to do jobs that they weren't doing before, and we think that the Nabataean women were really a big part of society. As I said, they had status and standing. So for me as a female historian, it's particularly interesting and really important to understand their story.
Speaker 1:We've all got preconceptions when we think of Saudi Going to Alula seeing the Rawi who were a lot of them were women. What did you feel was how do you think things have changed for
Speaker 3:the women there? Well, I mean, for me it was really interesting. So I was going and researching the story of the Nabataeans and researching the story of the ancient world. You know, we're talking kind of around 2300 years ago to around 1700 years ago. So it's that really important, like the kinds of summer days, the heyday of the ancient world.
Speaker 3:And just doing the research on which experts I should be talking to, this is completely by chance. It turns out the three main people I should talk to were female. They were women and they're Saudi women who are experts in their field. So immediately that gives you, you know, a better, a truer impression of what women are now doing in that region. So yeah, you know, and they're really cool women, they've become really good friends now. You know, it's really interesting hearing them tell their story. So for me it's why it's also so important to tell the story of these early, these, as I said, these kind of foundational cultures in that region where definitely women were responsible for building the civilizations and the cultures that helped to make it such a successful place in the ancient world.
Speaker 1:What's the one item that you'll never travel anywhere without?
Speaker 3:I'll tell you what it is. I always take a tube of fizzy vitamin C. And I tell you why because I often think, like you know again, like you if you're stuck out in the middle of nowhere, 99 times out of 100, you have water. So if you're feeling really rough, it just is something, even if it's psychological, it gives you a sense that you've got a bit of a pep up, that you're giving your immune system a bit more of a chance, you know. So I've had vitamin C in, like you know, monasteries in the remote edges of China. You know, deep in the depths of the desert Underwater, I actually managed to get a mix of vitamin C once.
Speaker 3:So yeah so a tube of effervescent vitamin C, which, of course, is disastrous because it often gets like wet and clogged up, but that's what I will always, always pack.
Speaker 1:That was Bettany Hughes, a woman who makes it her mission to follow in the footsteps of our ancestors, no matter where they may lead. It's something I understand, having followed my granny's footsteps to Saudi, which, I'm going to be brutally honest, some people told me I shouldn't have done. I'm not going to shy away from the fact that it does remain one of the world's most controversial countries to visit. Designing to go somewhere is always a personal choice, but this episode I wanted to give you 10 reasons why I think you should at least consider going to Alula. At 10, go to challenge your preconceptions. You will go with your own opinions, for sure, but I guarantee you will leave with some new ones. At 9 nine go to take a look behind the headlines. We've all seen them, the good and the bad, but when has that ever meant we responsible travellers shouldn't go and see for ourselves? Going somewhere doesn't mean you agree with everything that happens there, but it will allow you insight you can't get without immersing yourself there firsthand, which leads me to reason.
Speaker 1:Eight to speak to locals on the ground. In the media, we will usually only ever hear from the big players in a place, but to really understand what a place is all about. You have to speak to those normal people who live it every single day. I tried to showcase some of that in my story, but you will only be able to get your own perspective by going there and chatting to individual people yourself. Reason seven is to learn about the history of the country. You can pick it up in a book, of course, but standing amid the hugely well-preserved tombs of the former Nabataean city of Hegra, learning about the role of men and women in this key trade route, will help deepen your understanding of the country and our connection to it. Reason six to influence change. Just by going there and speaking to people giving feedback, even anonymously in comment boxes, we do have the power to change how things develop in the tourism industry. To change how things develop in the tourism industry From driving sustainability to championing women. In a country that is investing in tourism, our words hold weight. Reason five to challenge the status quo. You've already heard from some of the wonderful women I spoke to how much tourism has helped open doors for them. So just by being there, you are already making a difference.
Speaker 1:Reason four to have a cultural exchange. You heard my wild camping guide I was sharing here with my knowledge about finding the North Star, but it doesn't end there. Going to Alula gives us a chance to learn about the people there, but they also learn about us too. Stereotypes are challenged on both sides, and that can only be a good thing. Reason three is to influence the future for women. By requesting female guides, by asking to meet the female chefs, we are showing that they have value and that we want to see more of them.
Speaker 1:Reason two is to drive responsible change. By choosing where our money goes in the country, we are sending out a clear message as to what we deem important Hotels committed to sustainability, female guides who work freely and unhindered, responsible and ethically run tour operators. What we choose matters. And reason one because when you stand in Jabal Iqbal the outdoor library and see two to three thousand year old rock carving inscriptions all about you in multiple languages, from all over the world, as far away as China, west Africa, Mesopotamia and the Mediterranean, you realize this place was once truly a meeting point, one that was incredibly connected with people, possibly more connected and more understanding of each other's cultures and beliefs than we are now, and perhaps, just perhaps with Alula at the centre of tourism, we could be witnessing the start of a second wave. That was my regular top 10, where I get to offer my insight and expertise on all things travel.
Speaker 1:If it has persuaded you that a trip to Alula should be firmly on your list, then you'll need to stick around for the gear segment, because in it I'm going to tell you how to best pack to go from walking in the souks of Old Town to the sand of the Wadis. Stone and sand. If I had to sum up Alula's terrain in two words, they would be it. One minute you can be strolling down the streets of Old Town, peering into boutique shops and browsing stalls. Then, minutes later, you might be padding the sand on the adjacent Oasis Heritage Trail or wandering amid the wind-scoured sandstone formations of Elephant Rock, maybe leaping on and off 4x4s in Hegra or clambering through the canyons in Sharon Nature Reserve. So how on earth do you dress for all that? Listen up.
Speaker 1:The key to remember is that outfits should be both practical for all terrains, whilst taking into account the conservative Saudi culture, which means no short shorts and preferably the covering of your arms. First up, I found that zip-off trousers were the best and most versatile bet. In the towns. Your legs are covered In the towns. Your legs are covered in the outdoors. The fabric is tough enough when scrambling over rocks in the wadis and when hiking and it's hot, you can zip them off and still be wearing perfectly respectable long shorts, no matter what your gender.
Speaker 1:For tops, I went for t-shirts that were a little oversized, and then always a pashmina. Not only was it good if I wanted to visit a mosque in the town and needed to cover my hair, but it's also a wrap in the evening when it gets cold, or a picnic blanket when in the wadi, or a block for the sand in the heat of the day, to wrap around my face when on the back of a 4x4. There's a reason that Bedouins wear them. Then do take a jacket.
Speaker 1:It gets surprisingly cold in the evening in Alula Old Town, so I took lightweight layers that I could add on in case and in the wadi when, while camping, I even upended borrowing a duvet jacket. So pack one too. Sandals were my friend in the town and hotels, but a lightweight pair of trail runners suited every eventuality. Ensure all your clothing is breathable and can wick away sweat too, and under no circumstances forget your sunglasses. That was my regular gear chat, helping you take the stress out of your next adventure. Now, when I was chatting to my guide, wadad, whose parents were both Bedouin, she told me about a slightly stressful, though really rather wonderful thing that happened to her mother when tending sheep in the wadi as a girl.
Speaker 7:When she was young, she used to go and sheep herd with her sisters Wow. And then she actually saw the Arabian leopard, which is now the one that we keep like a wildlife sharaan nature reserve. For that, specific animal.
Speaker 1:That's right. Before succumbing to habitat loss and hunting. There used to be wild leopards here in Saudi and there are rumblings of plans to bring them back. With my ear to the ground, I tracked down a woman called Masaq Al-Anazi, a Nature Reserve research assistant, who is working in the Sharaan Nature Reserve on a monitoring programme to measure all the influencing factors on wild animal behaviour, with the long-term goal of bringing back this native apex predator. We've heard about the Arabian Leopard, the plans to reintroduce, so what's the idea behind this and when are you hoping it will happen?
Speaker 4:It's actually we ensuring to recovering the wildlife. We can prepare to have the leopard here in Al Ula. We have a breeding centre in Al Taif and we are actually working in a short time to have a large number. Maybe you know we have now 27 leopards. Yes, it's a good number in a short time, from 19 to until 23. Yeah, and we want to to building alula for future and building for the community in alula, to preparing and have awareness enough awareness about the leopard, the important wildlife and the plant cover to have, ensuring we have the food chain in place.
Speaker 1:What are you putting in place now to prepare for them coming?
Speaker 4:place now to prepare for them coming. We, we will building the breeding center now yeah, a big building center and we preparing the rangers, the community and the nature reserve itself to have enough animals to eat.
Speaker 1:What's the reaction been like with local people for the project?
Speaker 4:Well, it's a big thing. They're quite interesting. They're waiting to see the leopard. I wish I can make you hear my dad or my mom react, and my family and the next generation. They're waiting for having a leopard.
Speaker 1:And they ask the having a leopard. And they ask actually a lot, Because obviously if you're bringing something obviously they were here before they should be here and you're bringing something back there's always the scope that some people might be quite afraid that suddenly you have an apex predator back in the thing. So what are you doing to kind of explain to people the safety and all this?
Speaker 4:Actually we're doing that in the workshop, yeah, and we're trying to engage the local community and engage the rangers, if you have, and this is the smart way in RCU they're hiring a local community and the rangers to have a closer look at how the programme works and they can make sure all the families know about the leopard and how it's safe now to have a leopard in the future, and so by restoring the food chain.
Speaker 1:what sort of animals does that involve bringing back as well? Are the animals still there, or are you bringing back new species as well that should have been there but have died?
Speaker 4:out. Now we reintroduction the native species as ibex, sand, gazelle and even the rabbit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and are they there now then?
Speaker 4:yes, okay, yeah, and they're doing well. They're sort of very well. I'm very proud to see the the result now did you ever think you're from alula growing up?
Speaker 1:did you ever think in your when you were a kid that in your lifetime you would see the Arabian leopard back here?
Speaker 4:No, but I know it's very big things because when I was growing up, my dad, he told me about the wildlife and he kept me remembering all the species we had Inside me. I believe Al Ula will be. Since I was a kid, I have that idea that Al Ula will be in the first. I don't know how I say it, but it will be all the world they will know about Alula and it will be very successful city for everything.
Speaker 1:That was this episode's hidden hero, the person in travel doing work behind the scenes to help the environment, wildlife conservation and local communities. I was particularly pleased I could find a female conservationist in Alula to be able to talk to. And already it's nearly the end of the episode, so time for me to share with you my utterly incredible Wander Woman of the Month. I hope you've enjoyed what you've heard. Please do subscribe so you never miss an episode, and please do leave a review. It means so very much. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram @Phoebe R Smith. Go to my website, phoebe-smith. com, where you can sign up for my occasional newsletter and, of course, send me a message. Now this episode, we head to Mecca with a Scottish woman who became the first Muslim woman born in Britain to perform the Hajj pilgrimage. The place is Mecca, the famous pilgrimage destination for those following the Muslim faith. The year is 1933. But in the scene in front of Kaaba, the stone building at the centre of the Masjid al-Haram, a small white woman walks amid the Arabians. Though to look at her you can see she is Western and to speak to her you'd know she was British. She is not an imposter Her name is Zainab Cobbold, and her presence here marks the first time a British-born Muslim woman made the pilgrimage to Mecca.
Speaker 1:But Zainab didn't begin life studying Islam. In fact she didn't begin life as Zainab at all. Her name was in fact Lady Evelyn Murray and she was born in Edinburgh in 1867. Her father was a Scottish peer and Conservative politician with one of those aristocratic names and titles that demands attention. On paper, there is very little in her early upbringing that would suggest the life of adventuring that lay ahead. However, as she grew older, the family would spend many of her childhood winters in North Africa, in Cairo and Algiers in particular. She later claimed to have spent much of her childhood in the company of Muslim nannies, and it is here she developed her lifelong fascination with Islam. She later wrote of her experiences as a child in Algiers. My delight was to escape with my governess and visit the mosques with my Algerian friends, and unconsciously I was a little Muslim at heart.
Speaker 1:In May 1891, she married John Dupuy Cobbold at the All Saints Church in Cairo, but her life of exploring the Arabic world was still some years away. The couple moved to live a quiet life in Suffolk, raising three children. She cut a remarkable figure On her Scottish estates she became a skilled deerstalker and a renowned shot, while at her London residences she was known as a Mayfair socialite. However, her pull to the East became stronger and stronger. Together with her friend, Francis Gordon Alexander, she travelled through the Liberian desert in 1911, publishing an account of their journey a year later. It furthered her interest and knowledge of Islam and in 1915 she confirmed her conversion to Islam and took the Arabic name Zainab. She considered the Islam religion most calculated to solve the world's many perplexing problems and to bring to humanity peace and happiness.
Speaker 1:After the death of her husband in 1929, Zainab Cobbold, now fully immersed in her Islamic faith, began planning her pilgrimage to Mecca. This journey marked a significant turning point in her life and her commitment to her faith. In 1933, at the age of 66, Zainab embarked on her pilgrimage to Mecca. The next year she published her account of the journey in her book Pilgrimage to Mecca. It next year she published her account of the journey in her book Pilgrimage to Mecca. It is a vividly written book, full of the colour and culture of life in the Arabic world in the 1930s. She spoke and wrote fluently in Arabic, and her insight and conversations with people at all levels of society are deeply sympathetic. She rarely stopped travelling and writing and in 1935 she published Kenya, Land of Illusion, an energetic account of a journey through the African country. Zainab died in 1963 and is buried in Wester Ross, Scotland, on a remote hillside that faces Mecca. An Imam from Woking drove in the snow to perform her . On her gravestone reads the words Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth.
Speaker 1:Today, her grave is often visited by converted Muslims and was even the subject of a novel by Aberdeen Bay Sudanese writer, leila Abulela. Bird Summons tells the story of three Muslim ladies on a pilgrimage to Zainab Cobbold's grave. Zainab always followed her heart and her mind, a rare feat given for someone especially wrapped up in the strict confines of Victorian aristocracy. She shed light on a culture that was new to many in Britain at the time, changing preconceptions through travel and writing, and that's why she had to be my Wander Woman of the Month. That was Zainab Cobbold, our incredible Wander Woman of the Month. What a great story of devotion, adventure and a quest for knowledge to end our exploration on. In the next episode of the Wander Woman podcast. As the latest buzzword of multi-generational travel hits the headlines, this Wander Woman takes her clan, including my 75-year-old dad and my three-year-old son, on a train traveling adventure across Southeast Asia to see if family travel really is all it's cracked up to be. I'll be chatting, surviving a holiday with your best friend, with the winners of Race Around the World, Tricia and Cathie, meeting the man who befriended Bison and is overseeing their comeback in the plains of Canada, and offering my advice for bagging the best deal on rail travel. See you then, Wander Woman out.
Speaker 1:The Wander Woman podcast is written and edited by me, Phoebe Smith. The producer and writer of additional material is Daniel Nielson. The logo was designed by John Somerton. The voice of my late grandmother was provided with thanks by Libby Collins. Thanks to this episode's podcast partners, the Royal Commission of Alula for helping me finally follow in my granny's footsteps For more on the place, visit experiencealula. com. And a multitude of gratitude to all the people, especially the women I met on my journey and were willing to talk to me. It's because of you that this podcast is able to happen at all.