Wander Woman: A Travel Podcast

Voodoo Child

• Phoebe Smith • Season 3 • Episode 4

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What if everything you thought you knew about voodoo was completely wrong? This episode Wander Woman Phoebe Smith heads to Togo and Benin in West Africa - the birthplace of the religion, with Explore, to seek out the real voodoo beyond the sensationalist Hollywood portrayals of evil dolls and sinister spells. Journeying to the rural north of both countries she invites you to experience with her the rituals, practises, dances and truth behind perhaps the most maligned belief system in the world. Come wander with her...

Also coming up:

  • Woman with Altitude Elise Wortley on why she travels with world wearing a bonnet and Victorian bras
  • Travel Hack: Make the most of your tour leader
  • 10 incredible cultural experiences around the world
  • Meet Namgyal Doma Sherpa a massage therapist on the Everest Basecamp trek with Lehara, helping heal hikers AND give jobs and money to remote communities
  • Pack the kit you really need for visiting West Africa
  • Marie Laveau, the Voodoo Queen of New Orleans, is our Wander Woman of the Month 

Contact Wander Woman

www.Phoebe-Smith.com; @PhoebeRSmith

Speaker 1:

On this month's Wander Woman podcast.

Speaker 2:

A lot of people have misconceptions about voodoo Because people can say oh, when you worship voodoo, you are a bad person. Voodoo used to kill people. Voodoo is a doll with nails. But if you come here, they'll give you a deeper knowledge.

Speaker 1:

I head to the West African countries of Togo and Benin with this month's podcast partner, explore, to learn all about what voodoo really is, beyond Hollywood's sensationalist portrayal of it as evil black magic. I also speak to Woman with Altitude, Elise Wortley, to discover her inspiration for dressing up as historical female travellers and re-enacting their journeys.

Speaker 3:

I do it in the old clothes because I'm like not only were they battling everything in society to be equal, but they also were hindered by these things.

Speaker 1:

I also meet Namgyal Sherpa, who works for the Nepalese charity Lehara, which empowers women in the community by teaching and qualifying them as sports massage therapists so that they can earn their own money, help hikers on the Everest Base Camp track and bring money into their remote communities.

Speaker 1:

I can help with the community like we have done, like dental camps, dust bins all the Khumbu valley and all the people are happy. Also coming up how to make the most of your tour guide in this month's travel hack, 10 life-changing cultural encounters to experience around the world. And in my regular gear chat, I help you pack for a visit to West Africa. Finally, I'll be revealing this episode's Wander Woman of the Month, a traveller whose name is lost in the history books. You're listening to the Wander Woman podcast and audio travel magazine with me, adventurer Phoebe Smith, exploring off the beaten track destinations, wild spaces, wildlife encounters and the unsung heroes behind conservation efforts.

Speaker 1:

Come wander with me

Speaker 1:

You can see dead animals, the heads of dead animals, birds and many things.

Speaker 1:

You join me in Togo, a small country in West Africa roughly the same size as Croatia or, for those listeners in the US, a little smaller than the state of West Virginia. I'm in the western part of the capital city of Lome and I'm standing in a market, but this isn't just any market, as you've heard. Instead of stacks of fruit and veg, I'm looking at counters upon counters of severed heads, from snakes to monkeys, birds to alligators and even horses, cats and dogs. Above them are dolls decorated in seashells and straw skirts, some with nails and pins protruding out of them. This is a fetish market, and the reason you come here is for all things, voodoo. And I've come here at the start of my two-week journey in search of the real voodoo behind the Hollywood clichés, so it seemed appropriate to go and see the priest to get a blessing for the journey ahead.

Speaker 5:

We call the name of this in English is the travel protection.

Speaker 1:

It's the travel protection, travel protection. Oh right, it looks like. Is it meant to look like a little person?

Speaker 5:

When you want to travel you hold the left hand and then you have the small hole here, you see that small hole. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5:

You talk to him and then you say my fetish today I want to travel. Protect me in the car, the boat, the plane. I want to travel to come back to see my family. Well, okay, after that you close it. So when you close it, you put it in your pocket.

Speaker 1:

I know what some of you are thinking: scary, right? Isn't voodoo supposed to be a dangerous and bad sort of magic? Or maybe you're just thinking it's all nonsense. But let me ask you, where are you getting your insight? The movies, maybe? James Bond springs to mind.

Speaker 1:

I was naive to it all myself until I visited Haiti back in 2014, a place where slaves from West Africa were sent during the 16th century. There, I saw firsthand the power of vodou, not for its spells, but for the emotional connection it gave the enslaved people. They were forbidden from practicing it and forced to convert to Christianity, so hid their spirits within Catholic deities. Then, in 1791, at a large vodou ceremony, it kick-started the only successful slave revolt in history. By 1804, the colonial French had been wiped out and Haiti became a black-led republic, the first in the world. I knew then that this religion was far more than just that. It was an entire culture, a way of life, and I was on my journey to the duo countries of Togo and Benin, the latter of which is known as the birthplace of voodoo, to find out if people are starting to change their opinion of it in both countries.

Speaker 2:

So before when voodoo was not understood, many people thought that voodoo is something bad, a kind of power that people used to kill each other yeah many people were not interested in in Benin.

Speaker 2:

When someone called caused the name of Benin, he said, hey, that country, so many people are not in trouble. So since 2016, when the current president came on power, he decided to promote Voodoo. Voodoo is not promoted in Togo, but when we go to Aneho, which is a town close to Benin, voodoo is practiced. But the thing is, our government is not promoting the culture like in Benin. Our president or our tourist ministry they are not promoting. If we take tourism as a whole, the promotion of tourism in Togo is not noticeable. One other thing is that in our community in Togo, many people still those who are Africans, Togolese, they still think that voodoo is bad. But in Aneho also, there is a festival Black Deity Festival that they organise each year. People come from diaspora. But now we need the support of the government to promote things.

Speaker 1:

While the government in Togo may not be promoting voodoo heritage and tourism yet, people do come here, but tourism is still very much in its infancy. Those that do come, usually on a cruise ship, stick to the coast, but companies like the one I'm travelling with head north, visiting more rural communities and cities to get a real flavour of life. So, along with Yao, who you just heard from, and my other two guides, Oscar and Edmund, we began our journey there, visiting a beautiful jungle north of Kpalime, in a village where artisans source their paint pigment only from the natural surrounds, and a butterfly expert guides us to the top of the second highest peak in the country, teaching us how flowers, plants and herbs are used to create earrings, tattoos and medicine. But it's not till we reach Sokode that we get our first glimpse of a spiritual practice, this time a fire dance.

Speaker 2:

A hunter in the region, there was war between the tribes. Sometimes people come and attack other tribes. If they come and they attack, they burn their their houses. So one day one of the hunters, he went to hunt. When he went to hunt, that day he couldn't find any game and he saw the spirits in here we call it genie. Those are some spirits living in the forest. Sometimes if you are lost in the forest those spirits can find you, hide you for months, train you. If you come back you possess spiritual powers. So that day the hunter found that spirit. As he couldn't find any game, the spirit asked him what he wanted and the hunter told the spirits he wanted a power to repel fire.

Speaker 1:

We watched with enraptured local children sat on our knees as the villagers all who come from the same lineage of the hunter Yao mentioned rubbed their bodies with flames, sat on top of a burning fire and even chewed a stick that was still glowing orange with white, hot embers. You can hear from the sound of the drums how intoxicating the rhythm is. I was intrigued to see more. We headed further north, to the Bassar region, where we were granted a meeting with the traditional chief. We learned about his role, mainly mediating all manner of arguments and disagreements among his people, how he became king nomination by elders but then this must be in agreement with the ancestors, via a soothsayer who consults the spirits of deceased chiefs, which just shows how, despite not being in your face, voodoo here is very much interlaced with the running of the village.

Speaker 2:

As guide Edmund translates they have the voodoo somewhere they hide the lebja and they feed all their spirits of the diseased kings before they come out every morning.

Speaker 1:

After visiting the head of the community, we are taken to meet some families nearby in a village of around 200 to 300 people where I notice on arrival a familiar sight a lebja or voodoo shrine outside the mud houses. I asked one of the men what it was there, for which Edmund translated for me.

Speaker 2:

Mostly, most of the fetish here, or deities, are multifunctional, but the one they always place at the entrance plays the role of protection, To protect the whole family father, mum, the children against sickness, witchcraft and any strange disease as well.

Speaker 1:

As we continued on, we stopped at what appeared to be a food market and wandered through stalls selling dried fish, fresh meat, fruit and vegetables. But even here there are everyday items unbeknown to the Western eye that are used in the practice of voodoo, as Edmund points out.

Speaker 2:

This sponge is not a usual one. It's mostly used in voodoo religion. When they do the portion, they mix with some soap.

Speaker 1:

Voodoo at its heart is a religion that celebrates and is intertwined with nature. Shrines, fetishes, lebja are all made from natural materials. Gods or deities are connected with terrain and animals and, as such, are fed through sacrifices. Strength and courage is received from the animals and from seeking the wisdom of our ancestors, and I was fascinated to see how this changes depending how far north you go, and that's because all the borders in West Africa are, of course, man-made by colonisation. Speaking of borders, Benin now loomed on the horizon and we crossed into a small Taneka village on a hilltop. The Taneka, who originate from Ghana, Burkina and Togo, practice scarification so that you can tell which of the three tribal groups they belong to.

Speaker 1:

After being granted access by the chief, we were free to wander with our local guide, where it soon becomes apparent, as Yao said, just how much more open and prevalent voodoo is here compared to Togo. We wander past the sacred baobab tree wrapped in a white cloth, reminding me of Buddhism, and we are encouraged to touch it and ask for something, but we must go barefoot. In our hour-long stroll, we meet three different fetish priests who wear nothing but a single loincloth made of goatskin and smoke tobacco from a long pipe as a way of communing with the voodoo spirits. Their altars are sealed, with only them knowing the way in. I ask one called Namaris Fetish Priest, who's been a priest since he was 52 and is now in his 70s, and whose specialism they all have one is healing sickness. How busy he is, translated through two people, one who spoke the local dialect and Yao, who speaks French and English.

Speaker 2:

They are here 24/ 7. People can come to them night, day and they are there for them. But sometimes also, in their dreams, ancestors can talk to them. Ok, go and do this kind of sacrifice because bad spirit or evil spirit is coming to the community. So do this one to prevent those evil spirits to come and attack the community.

Speaker 1:

In Taneka, you need, as is the case with most voodoo temples, an actual priest to make the required sacrifice and talk to the gods, but there are a handful of shrines called open shrines in Benin where anyone can go and do it alone. No priest? No problem. You have a direct line to the spirits. We pass the biggest one in the country called Dankoli and stop beside the road. Immediately we are greeted with young men who are there to help you do the procedure properly for a fee and, of course, slaughter the animals if you're making a sacrifice. Before you worry, there are no animal sacrifices in this episode, but my Beninois guide, Edmund, gives a little explanation of what happens here at the shrine, or altar as they know it in Benin the da.

Speaker 2:

They give me the stick and I need to push. We are going to experience how they do that. I'm going to push that stick in the fetish and after then I have to communicate secretly with that fetish and this fetish or this deity. Speak English, French, any kind of language you speak.

Speaker 1:

We witness a promise being made both to the male and female shrine. They always have both. Most people worry about the animal sacrifice, but this is only done once your wish comes true. At this stage, the shrine is simply doused with palm oil, and then you spit the so-called kill me quick liqueur, produced by distilling palm wine and sugarcane, onto it, and you simply wait. But Edmund and our slaughter man Joaquim have a warning.

Speaker 2:

If you give a small things, your result will be slower, but if you give a big things but if you give a big thing your result will be quicker. If I want a quick result, you have to promise a big thing, but you have to be sure that whatever you promise, you have to come back and sacrifice.

Speaker 1:

With a deeper understanding about the ritual of voodoo, we now head further south, where we will begin to witness some of the dances and ceremonies in practice, but before that, we stop overnight in Dassa, the former capital of an ancient kingdom dating back to around the 12th century. In the morning, before continuing on, we head out for a walk up Sacred Hill, one of 41 peaks that are each home to a divinity, and here we realise there is yet another appellation for voodoo, as Edmund explains.

Speaker 2:

In Dassa, where we are, they have countless orisha of voodoo, because here they don't like the word voodoo, they like orisha. Ok, when you came to Benin and we talk about voodoo, you cannot talk about voodoo without mentioning the name of Dassa, because we have god of land, known in our language , and we have here the head quarter of the, the headquarter of . Here it is the main in the whole Benin and where there is also the pilgrimage every year people come from different, different places. Yes, for protection, also for promotion as well.

Speaker 1:

We climbed to the top of the peak, enjoying views over the city, which was so very green, with a proliferation of trees. At the top local children chatted to us in French and we were shown the shrine to kings who have passed. Their totems, or wooden dolls, lie locked in a special sanctuary. We got to peer inside. Once we descend, we were treated to a very special voodoo dance, the Egungun.

Speaker 2:

An Egungun in Yoruba language simply means a living dead, you know, and that is those who are worshipping the spirit of dead people, and we are here to learn more about them, to see how they are initiated, what are their do's and their don'ts, and who are those who are dancing here as well, but we are not supposed to see them, those who are dancing, because they are a member of secret society, they are going to make more shows and also they are going to have fun as well, and we never see their faces. Never. If you see their face, you will die shortly.

Speaker 1:

The colourful costumes are elaborately made of bright fabrics and cover every part of the body. The wearer's face is lined with curtains of small shells so we cannot see their identity, and when they lean forward, some of them resemble an altar with the face of a deceased ancestor on the top of it. It's quite a sight. Villagers gather to watch too, including attendees at an adjacent funeral, but all of them run when the spirit dances towards them, as no one wants to touch the cloak of the dead. As such, they are each followed by a spirit guide who carries a stick that represents the boundary between the living and the dead. This is the sound of another dance, this time the Gelede. I'm now further south, in Cove, to see how masked dancers are used to educate locals with messages about embracing your voodoo heritage, not getting pregnant too young and being respectful. But one thing I noticed here was that all the dancers all male were dressed as women. I asked why this was and realised that the deity of the Gelede is Yami, a woman.

Speaker 2:

Women are special. They have a special power. So I'm relating the fact that men dress like women to dance because they know that women have that special power.

Speaker 1:

It was good to hear women's involvement in what so far had felt quite male-dominated. And at my next stop, the Chameleon Temple in Abomey, I learned that there are three voodoo priestesses currently inside the sacred rooms in training. The temple itself is accessed by the open mouth of a lion. Interesting side note the word chameleon comes from the Greek word earth lion. But what intrigues me more is the giant 10-metre stone chameleon building next door which, rather than a temple, is more of a centre for learning, a place people are welcome to go, no matter what their religion, to learn more about the misunderstood voodoo practices.

Speaker 2:

It's not only those who are initiated to voodoo. You can see the voodoo priest, the voodoo practices. Voodoo is for the world, for everybody. If you are Catholic, you are allowed to come here. If you are Muslim, everyone has the right to come here there is no exclusion.

Speaker 1:

I love the idea that this belief system is not only open to all. In fact, many people go to church in the morning, then voodoo temples straight after, in a practice often known as Santeria. But more than that, I love the way its practices are so attuned to nature. Speaking of which, the village of Ganvie is next, aka the Venice of Africa. Here, houses are built on stilts in the Lake Nokoue, next to the capital of Cotonou. You can only get there by boat. Food is purchased from floating markets and that night a local soothsayer comes to read our fortunes.

Speaker 1:

I decided I would take that reading and enjoy the rest of my evening by the water. Of all the places in Benin associated with voodoo, Ouidah is indisputably the most well-known, in part due to the annual voodoo festival held there every January. I was looking forward to seeing such a famous place but, as with many such places, the vibe here felt changed. We visited a snake temple where you could pose with a python, but it felt touristy compared to everything else I'd seen so far. I was actually glad to leave it and take to the water instead. Now we were back at the coast and go journeying through some mangroves. These, our guide explained, are protected due to their carbon capture ability to help flood prevention and the fact that they act as an important nursery to marine life. But of course, being Benin, they weren't protected in the way you might expect.

Speaker 2:

We do not protect them by hanging people or by slapping them. They protect them with divinity. The moment we see this divinity, you know that this place, you are not allowed to go there.

Speaker 1:

The spirit he referred to was hanging amid the mangroves and is one known as Zangbeto, Looking a little like Cousin it from the Adams family, a tall figure layered with straw-like head-to-toe hair. Zangbeto's role in villages were once one of night watchmen, or policemen or soldier, making sure people didn't get up to no good after dark. Following the mangrove's boat ride, we went to see four spinning colourful Zangbeto in the flesh or actually not, as local Frederick explained. All was not as it appeared.

Speaker 2:

So if you see the Zangbeto moving, if you are a newcomer here, you think that there is someone inside moving it. But it's not true. It's not with the spirits inside which moving the, the mass, and at the end, you see, they will move it. You'll see inside, by yourself, to know that this is not human being, moving it by the spirit the bright orange colored zangbeto swirled around for at least half an hour without a break.

Speaker 1:

Then it stopped, tipped over, and underneath was a small voodoo shrine. There was no one inside it. Now it was time to cross the border back into Togo and to Lome and the airport. But before we did there was time for one more dance, just near the border of Grand Popo, and here there were no masks, no costumes, and it seemed the women were the centre stage as one by one they fell into a trance dance and I took a minute to speak to the priestess, with thanks to Yao.

Speaker 2:

She's saying that the spirit of the deity can possess you if you are initiated. But even if you are not initiated, the spirit can can possess you. Yes, meaning that you have something linked linked to deity. If you have something, some pretty predisposition in you linked with the , because we know, in the Voodoo tradition we believe that man is made of the four elements air, earth, water and fire. So if you have one of those elements, meaning that you have earth in you that the deity sees and loves, it can possess you.

Speaker 1:

One by one, the women were taken by the spirit. All the other women rushed to their aid, dousing them with water and palm oil to cool them down, and, I was told, to calm the spirit inside them. The trance only ends when a ceremony is performed at the very end, but it can go on for hours. Tassie, the priestess I spoke to, who's been possessed countless times, said you never could remember what you'd done. When you were in a trance, with the beat of the drums and the call of the choir, I could easily see how you would be swept up in it and start rolling around the floor, as some of them did.

Speaker 1:

Before I came to Togo and Benin, I was warned by everyone without exception to fear voodoo and its powers. Like every religion, there is good and bad. There's times in history that people are not proud of, but at its heart, all I'd witnessed was its love for nature and the ability to bring together communities. No wonder it has survived and thrived in populations of West Africans who were enslaved, for it provides a real doorway back into their culture, their home. As I stood there watching this last dance, I thought back to the day earlier in Ouidah when we passed the Gate of no Return, through which slaves passed on the horrendous journey to a horrible life overseas. But our guide had told us to notice.

Speaker 6:

The second side of the gate that faces Atlantic Ocean is a gate of spiritual return. So the gate is in the middle of the law of opposites.

Speaker 6:

So the gate of no return physical, the gate of return spiritual.

Speaker 1:

There on the beach, two statues of the Egungun face the sea, representing all those African people lost and ready to welcome their spirits home once more.

Speaker 1:

That was me in West Africa on Explore's Benin and Togo Voodoo Discovery Trip. I want to take a minute to thank our wonderful driver, Stephen, and our local guides, Oscar, Yao and Edmund, for their wonderful insights, patience and, of course, translation, without which this episode of the podcast could not have happened. To learn more about this trip and others that they offer, go to explore. co. uk, who are wonderful to travel with from start to finish.

Speaker 1:

Now, as a travel writer and broadcaster, I'm always looking for a shortcut into a culture. For me, it's about uncovering the nuances of a society, to talk to its people, understand their daily lives and find out what is important for them. As a storyteller, you never quite know where your next story will come from, and that's the beauty of travel. Food and sport are particularly interesting ways to envelop yourself in a new country. However, what I have learned over the years is that, whether travelling alone or with a group, the most valuable person on almost any trip is the tour leader. This person is positioned between tourists and the people they're visiting and, as a result has a unique insight into the culture, language, food, history and wildlife. They will also ensure you'll never make an embarrassing cultural faux pas. In short, they're invaluable. That's why this episode, I decided to dedicate my travel hack to making the most out of having a tour guide.

Speaker 1:

My first tip is to get your tour leader to teach you a few words of the local language. We all know that a please thank you, how do you do? Goes a long way to endear yourself, but get your tour leader to teach you some slang or colloquialism, something funny, something unexpected, in the local dialect. It'll be the joke that keeps on giving. Next, ask them about any cultural faux pas and especially what clothing to wear. According to this episode's podcast partner, explore, asking what to wear each day is the most common question, especially at religious sites or when walking. I've even heard about people struggling with an adjustment after a tour with no one to tell them what to wear. So use this while you can.

Speaker 1:

A tour leader is also an opportunity to ask someone friendly some of the more difficult cultural and historical questions about a location. Every country has some dark past that you probably don't want to ask about in a fleeting exchange, not so with a tour leader. They'll be honest, not shy away from explaining the challenges. Some people can go through Politics, history, common issues for locals, they'll know it all. Another common question, especially when visiting developing countries, should be how can we help? Is it money to local tour guides? Pens and pencils to schools, gifts? What is the most effective way? In a less altruistic way? The local guide will also know the best restaurants and bars. They'll know where the best food is, especially street food, or places the locals really visit, as well as know where's safe to prevent getting traveller's tummy. One friend of mine always jumps in a taxi and asks the driver to take her to their favourite restaurant. That's really getting to know a culture.

Speaker 1:

The tour leader will also be the person in that country you get to know best. Ask them about themselves. What was their childhood like? What is daily life like? What are the challenges? What do they do on a Sunday? What does a family gathering childhood like? What is daily life like? What are the challenges? What do they do on a Sunday? What does a family gathering look like? A wedding, a funeral? What do they learn in school? And ask them what's going on in the country? What are the local people talking about on the street.

Speaker 1:

Yep, your tour leader is more than a guide.

Speaker 1:

They are more like an instant friend.

Speaker 1:

They'll enrich your experience beyond what you could ever achieve on your own.

Speaker 1:

I just wish we could all have one in our day-to-day lives.

Speaker 1:

That was my Wander Woman travel hack the advice I offer each month to help you get the most out of your travels. Now, speaking of making the most of your experiences, how would you feel attempting to I don't know climb Mont Blanc in a dress and a bonnet and hobnail boots? Not just for fun, but to enable you to really experience what some of the women travellers back in the early 1800s would have gone through? Well, my guest today has done just that, and not just Mont Blanc. Elise Wortley, as part of her Woman with Altitude project, is on a mission to bring to life the incredible stories of history's forgotten women adventurers Literally a Wander Woman of the Month in real life by walking in their footsteps, recreating their expeditions using clothing and equipment that was only available to them at the time. I caught up with her after her first attempt at Mont Blanc to find out what and who inspired her and whose journey she will be recreating next.

Speaker 3:

So Women Without Altitude is a project I started about seven years ago and it started off just me, but it's turned into this kind of incredible community of people. And it all started because I read a book by a woman adventurer and explorer when I was younger, when I was 16, and I just couldn't believe I'd never heard about her, and then I sort of followed in her footsteps to raise her voice and raise her profile.

Speaker 3:

Um, this is all in a very short nutshell um and then since that trip, the project's really grown and I've got this huge list of women that did these inspiring things, but they were really overlooked compared to their male counterparts. So the project really is about shining a light on these women but also, through that, inspiring people and also supporting women, especially like women guides in, like the adventure and outdoor space, because it's still sadly like really male dominated world, especially when you think of sort of famous explorers and adventurers. So, yeah, the idea is to, yeah, share these stories and try to inspire inspire other people along the way.

Speaker 1:

And who was that woman whose book that you read? That kicked all this off.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so she was called Alexandra David-Neal and she was traveling in the early 1900s and she was the first Western woman to meet the Dalai Lama. She traveled for 14 years across Asia and she was really unusual because women at the time they didn't really do things like that, you know. They stayed home, they looked after the family, they didn't really have these opportunities. But she just turned her back on normal life and just went off and did all these incredible things. She was really hunting for the secret to Buddhism, which I and like all the Buddhism secrets, which, if you put it, you know now we can find anything online, you can just Google it.

Speaker 3:

I love to think back then she didn't, she just went off to find it because she couldn't find it anywhere else. So, yeah, she has this amazing story and I really liked her story because she really connected with the people that she met. You know, you read a lot of these explorers that did things back in the day and they didn't necessarily spend time with people and fully immerse themselves in their cultures and I just really sort of, yeah, connected with her story. Um, so, yeah, and then I sort of was talking to people about her and no one had heard of her. So I sort of decided that I would go off and, yeah, follow in her footsteps and what did that involve?

Speaker 1:

What trip did you do to follow in her footsteps?

Speaker 3:

So I obviously couldn't do the 14 years. Fair enough, so I decided to take the first bit of her journey. So she travelled through Sikkim in India, which is this beautiful part of India in the Himalaya. That was actually its own country, I think till the 70s. So when Alexandra was there, it was really different. And, yeah, we went there to get the views over Tibet, which was she became obsessed with Tibet and trying to get into there. So, yeah, we followed her sort of path up into the mountains and to Kanchenjunga Base Camp, which is the third highest peak in the world, I think. So, yeah, so that was the aim of the trip was to just follow her footsteps. So we went for a month, um, in India, into the most incredible mountain scenery you've ever seen and, yeah, and by.

Speaker 1:

By doing this, what did you learn? Did you learn more about her by recreating her journey?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely. And one thing I should say is I do the journeys in the clothes that these women had at the time, and the reason I did that is because I realised I would never fully understand what they were going through if I was in modern clothes. And one thing I found from their writing is that they were really sort of battling to be taken as seriously as the men. Like their writing was never taken as seriously their achievements weren't. I work in PR, so I like to like look at the press that the women got compared to what the men, and often it's, you know, quite differently written and it's yeah, so they were already battling. So they don't really talk a lot about how they truly felt or if they were scared or if they were cold or if they were worried. So I thought actually by wearing the old clothes, it's a good way to really get more of an insight into how they would have felt, which I would never kind of get in a sort of passenger puffer or waterproof trousers or anything like that.

Speaker 3:

So that's kind of how the old equipment came about. But now I kind of get a lot from it. I feel like this full immersion into you know, disconnecting from modern life. I don't have my phone and it's. It's kind of turned into a bit of escapism, I'd say, for me doing it in the old stuff and how?

Speaker 1:

How authentic do you go like? Is it down to the underwear? Do you source it from the exact same fabric, like where are you getting this, this stuff from?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I've got really obsessed with old clothes and old things now, so I go down fully to the underwear just because, because I can, and I found, yeah, and it's fascinating when you start looking at what people had and when things were around. So I was looking at Vaseline, I think for one trip, like when you know, lip balm in the mountains, it's like essential, it's been around for so long and like tampons like tampons were actually invented by the Egyptians. I mean not the way that they look now, but the first idea of one. So I've got really sort of into, you know, into this history of bras. Fascinating when you look at the history of bras.

Speaker 3:

So, yeah, I try and go down to everything, yeah, quite scary, and there's a lot of all- in-one sort of Victorian and Edwardian things that are quite funny, um, especially if you need the toilet, I can imagine. Well, interestingly, they all have buttons um in certain places, so you know they thought about that?

Speaker 1:

Because, because I don't if you've seen this something viral on Instagram about these new hiking trousers that have a zip so that you don't have to take them up, and it's like that's actually based on a really old idea there. Yeah, it's easier, isn't it so? And then does someone make them for you. Do you make them yourself? How do you source them?

Speaker 3:

Yes, it depends on the era. So I found that 1930 to now, you can generally find proper antique, vintage things that are from the time. I mean, they're often quite smelly but you can find them and I love getting things from the actual time. But before that it's really hard to get it. So I found lots of different people who make, make things and you'll be so surprised. Like there's a woman who actually makes Edwardian underwear. She has about 600,000 Instagram followers. She has a waiting list of six months. It's crazy. There's kind of wow that people love this stuff. So, yeah, I get things made if it's really old and I'll just research what materials they had and what they would use at the time and just kind of build, build a, build it all that way you know, the clothing was actually a barrier to most of these women doing stuff as well, especially if they wanted to do climbing.

Speaker 1:

And you see some of these wonderful pictures of on Tryfan in north wales and these huge, like love those skirts. They're really, really cool and the guy helping one of them across Adam and Eve and doing the climbs, when you look at some of the climbs these women did say even in the Lake District, you sort of think, wow, like they, they were tougher than the men because that stuff is heavy. Get that skirt wet. That is a lot of weight. Has it made you doing this have a kind of renewed appreciation for how tough those women were?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and that's another reason I do it in the old clothes, because I'm like not only were they battling everything in society to be equal, but they also were hindered by these things. So, yeah, the fact that they climb sheer rock faces and these massive dresses and I've read quite a lot of interesting accounts how they'd rebel in these kind of amazing little ways, so they'd put trousers on under their big corsets and whatever, and then they'd go off into the hills, wait till they were alone and then just take the dresses off and go and have loads of fun in the trousers, like climbing and walking, and then they'd put it back on and like go back to the village or the town where they were from and stuff. So yeah, it just shows how, yeah, how incredible they were on the, the ground, the journeys themselves.

Speaker 1:

You've recently done Mont Blanc, I believe. How close to the same route do you do? Is that often impossible? Can you? How do you make that?

Speaker 3:

So I try really hard to do the same route. So Mont Blanc is an interesting one, because I had to choose between summiting the same day that she did, which was in September, or doing the original route that she did, which isn't possible in September because the glaciers melted too much by then, wow. So we opted to try and summit on the same day, but obviously summiting Mont Blanc in September comes with all different sorts of issues because of the heat and the rock fall, yeah. So, yeah, we got halfway up and we could. There was a storm came so we had to turn back. So we're actually going to try again earlier on in the season, in early June, and there is a chance that we might be able to do the original route if the conditions are perfect.

Speaker 3:

Funding is the biggest barrier. I think there's lots of people that would say the same and it's yeah, it's so difficult. But there's amazing companies like Explore I've been working with recently and they kind of share the values of. One of the things I do is I'll try and use women on the ground in the countries to help. So, for example, in Iran it was an all women run travel company based in Tehran that I used to kind of help organize the trip. I had women guides, and the same with Mont Blanc, so I'll get women guides. So I had an amazing woman called Karen, who's coming with me again. She was the most experienced mountain guide I've ever had, like she could just read the weather. She was wonderful and she trains all the new recruits of mountain guides coming through, which, interestingly, she said, only two of them out of the 44 last year were women. So there's still a big, you know, disparity.

Speaker 1:

Finally, what's the one piece of travel gear that you will never go anywhere without?

Speaker 3:

Oh, interesting. Yeah, that's a hard one depends on what, what era I'm in, um, but I tend to always have. I don't know if it's even travel, but I always have a lip balm which I've already mentioned. I'm terrified of not having a lip balm. I'm like, oh 1870, does she have a lip balm?

Speaker 3:

because it's just so useful for everything.

Speaker 1:

That was Elise Lisa Wortley, aka Woman woman with Altitude altitude, who is following in the footsteps of pioneering women explorers lost to the history books. Look her up on instagram and find out more at womanwithaltitude. com womanwithaltitudecom. Now, speaking of fascinating people, I believe that it's the people who make the place. Every country on the planet has a beautiful blend of ethnic groups, each with an impact on the culture of that country. Togo, for example, has more than 40 ethnic groups, while Benin has more than 50, and they are, relatively speaking, both tiny countries. I found the trip to see them both truly life-changing, shifting my perspective on voodoo and its cultural practices, and also noticing its true importance to those people who were transported as slaves and retained it in places like Haiti and New Orleans to keep hold of their identity. It has made me even more determined than I already was to seek out more experiences like this on my travels, and that applies to my own country too. So to help you as well as me, if I'm honest decide where to go next, this episode's countdown features a smattering of cultural groups from across the globe, each handily with an explore trip to take you there to experience them. So join me to fuel your wanderlust and add a few more places to your ever-growing to visit list.

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Firstly, let's visit the Naga in India. The cornerstone of the Naga group's calendar is the Hornbill Festival, named after the colourful forest bird that is an important symbol of their culture. Time a visit right and you can experience their annual festival for two days, filled with performances, crafts, sports, food, fairs, games and ceremonies all on Explore's highlights of Assam Sam and Nagaland trip around the north-eastern Indian states.

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Next, grab your traditional Beaska Bekska fur coat and journey to meet the Sami people of Finland for an insight into how this vibrant culture thrives in the Arctic Circle both in the winter and during the thaw. Expect to learn a lot about reindeer herding and maybe catch a glimpse of the northern lights. On the Finnish Lapland winter . W

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we're staying north, but on the other side of the Atlantic, this time in Canada, to spend time with the Cree Iroquois community. On a bigger itinerary that includes the Canadian Rockies and Pacific Coast, a trip to Banff will offer insight into the original occupants of the country, with a female owned indigenous organisation where guides will share their traditions and explain their unique connection to the land

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.

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up, we pay a visit to the Maori of New Zealand. Caboc lo the haka and famous tattoos. Explore's New Zealand adventure allows you to spend time on a Maori farmstead, share a hangi meal, a traditional Maori cuisine cooked in an underground pit, and learn about the customs of a private marae, a place where communities come together for cultural celebrations. Or perhaps travel along the Brazilian Amazon by boat to meet the Cabo Clou

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people deep in the South American rainforest. Stay with a family and learn what it takes to Mism inay this jungle environment. Explore the Anavilhanas River archipelago by day and night, which consists of over a thousand islands, and learn to identify key plants that the locals rely on, including their cultural significance, and go fishing to maybe catch a piranha supper. Staying in South.

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America, we're now journeying to Peru to hang out with the Quecha community in Miss Mine. While many men work as porters on the Inca Trail, the women showcase traditional food and cooking techniques, as well as offer a deep dive into their lives in the mountains. You'll have the chance to meet these inspiring women on the adventure holiday in Peru tour.

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Next we're heading to West Africa, slightly further up the coast than I went, to Kakkhar meet Kamasi villagers on a best of ger trip. Meet an Ashanti king, spend time harvesting cocoa and enjoy a night at a local homestay in one of the many remote communities where residents work as subsistence farmers to see the entire harvesting process. You can even meet an Ashanti king, especially if you join a tour departing in November and December. Head further east and you'll eventually reach Mongolia, where you can introduce yourself to the Kakar Mongols. Spend several nights in a gur camp in the Orkhon Valley, setting out in the morning on horseback to see herds of yak goats and sheep, in the evening learn how to build a gur and maybe even milk the animals and make yoghurt all part of the package when you join the Mongolia Explorer itinerary.

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Now to Hokkaido, in the north of Japan, to spend time with the indigenous and oft-forgotten Ainu people, who were the first settlers to this island. They have a distinct culture that is in tune with nature and their crafts In particular, the weaving and wood carving is exquisite and recognised by UNESCO. Women traditionally have facial tattoos, all of which were nearly lost when the Japanese settled here, now recognised for the enriching experiences and cultural understanding they offer visitors. There's a Museum of Northern Peoples, which offers some context and traditions of the Ainu. Meet them on Explore's Japan Sapporo Snow Festival offering.

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And finally, we're meeting the Svans, who make their home among the Georgian Caucasus Mountains, a beautiful region with deep forests, glacial lakes and rushing rivers. The Svans are an ethnic subgroup with their own language and traditions, including some of the most generous hospitality found anywhere. The hiking in the Georgian Caucasus trip includes a chance to stay with them for an utterly immersive experience.

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Wow, even going through that list myself, I'm feeling inspired to book another trip. The Ghana one really appeals to immerse myself once again in the West African culture. But before I and indeed you get carried away, you might want to listen to my gear section first, where I, with insight from Explore's Africa programme manager Anthony Barton, give you advice on the best things to pack for a visit to West Africa.

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First off, pack a small light scarf or, if you prefer, a Buff neck gaiter. They're really useful for keeping dust or sand off your face, but can also be dipped in water on really hot days to keep your neck cool. Then take a larger scarf or pashmina to cover your shoulders, neck and head. Take a larger scarf or pashmina to cover your shoulders, neck and head, useful when entering a sanctuary, where this can sometimes be required. It also helps act as a portable sunshade.

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To reduce on single-use plastic waste. A water-to-go bottle is an excellent investment for any trip to West Africa, as you don't always know where the next drinking water stop will be. Their filters protect you from bacteria, viruses and protozoa, so you can fill with confidence from any tap or river. Just don't be tempted to dip it in the sea. It will not filter salt water. Speaking of water, it's always recommended to take either a lightweight waterproof jacket or, as I prefer, a lightweight travel umbrella. Great in the wet season and allows you to still keep cool even when it rains, no matter what the season.

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Always take insect repellent, especially if out at dusk or dawn, when the mosquitoes are most active. Other essentials include loo paper or tissues for bush wheeze you may need to do on the road with no facilities available, and also in some public toilets, which often don't provide paper With roving power cuts. A head torch can come in handy also good for walking back to your room at night after dinner. And because traveller's diarrhoea is a reality, take rehydration sachets to replace lost electrolytes. And for women, if you prefer to use a tampon to sanitary towels, then do make sure you pack them, as African shops don't tend to sell them Then to put all your haul. Opt for a backpack or soft-sided holdall, which will be much easier to take on and off the buses and like a wheeled case, which will snag on all the potholes and uneven terrain.

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Our final piece of advice despite being home to myriad bird life, do not take binoculars with you. They are a banned item and you will be fine for bringing them in and have them confiscated. Happy packing. That was my regular gear section, where I work out the solutions to all your packing problems.

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Now, speaking of working out a solution, if you've ever trekked in the High Himalaya, you cannot have missed the fact that most of the Sherpa guides are men and rely on working solidly during the trekking season to support their families, while the women remain at home. Another person who noticed that was Lisa Jelly, who, in 2019, after eight weeks trekking, decided to give back. She set up Lehara, a charity that trains local Sherpa women to work as massage therapists offering specialist treatments to trekkers on the Everest Base Camp Trail, giving them an income, with all profits after wages going to community projects in the Khumbu Valley. I spoke to one such therapist, Namgyal, to find out the change it's made to her and the whole Sherpa community.

Speaker 4:

My name is Namgyal and I used to work as a therapist before, but now I am doing the manager work in the Lehara Foundation.

Speaker 1:

And when did you first hear about Lehara and how?

Speaker 4:

I heard first about the Lehara in 2023 with Kunga.

Speaker 1:

Had you ever considered becoming a sports massage therapist before?

Speaker 4:

No, never.

Speaker 1:

And tell me a little bit about the training that you had.

Speaker 4:

Uh, yeah, we had a training in 2023. That was really fun and, yeah, we learned so many things. Yeah, it was like a new life and yeah, we had like 11 trainers, including myself, and then 7 of us were qualified and we passed the exam and then we qualified to work in two clinics, one in Namche and one in Dingboche and the training was really fun and, yeah, we learned so many things.

Speaker 1:

What's a typical job for a Sherpa woman?

Speaker 4:

Normal job is like doing a agriculture work.

Speaker 1:

What difference does it make to your family and community getting this job?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it makes a lot of difference doing this job, because I get a good payment, good salaries and, yeah, good income and my parents are really happy doing this job. And then, yeah, I can help with the community like we have done, like dental camp drives, trash bin all over the Khumbu Valley and, yeah, and all the Khumbu people are happy with the Lehara.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and then they are supporting the lehara

Speaker 1:

When you started Namgyal, did you ever think you would become a manager?

Speaker 4:

No! I have a good English. Yeah, I have good English and I can speak to a lot of people around here trekkers and I know a lot of guides trekking guides yeah.

Speaker 1:

And are the hikers very, very pleased when they realise they can get a sports massage when they're doing trekking?

Speaker 4:

Yes, they are really happy and, yeah, they can feel better after having a massage and with, yeah, massage with a good quality, using your forearms, back of the feet, which really impacts on their muscles.

Speaker 1:

How long is a typical massage that you do for hikers?

Speaker 4:

More like one hour massage and then some of the people want to have like 90 minutes of the people want to have like 90 minutes and yeah there are people who want to have a two round massage. Amazing.

Speaker 1:

Is there a common injury that the hikers have or a common problem that they have that they need fixing with the massage?

Speaker 4:

In knee, in ankle.

Speaker 1:

What part of your work do you enjoy the most?

Speaker 4:

With managing I'm like managing the staff, the payments and with the clients.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and which bit is the hardest part of your job?

Speaker 4:

Hardest part is like advertising with many people. Right now is like a bit easier cause we have posted more leaflets on the wall, yeah, yeah. And then some of the clients they find with the Google search, yeah, okay. Yeah, we have online booking as well, Online booking available. So, yeah, some clients do like online booking.

Speaker 1:

And do they tend to want the massage on the way up to base camp or the way down?

Speaker 4:

Most of the people have a massage while they go up. That's when all the aches start happening.

Speaker 1:

How many hikers do you typically get every day?

Speaker 4:

Typically get every day. Yeah, it depends on the clients and the good weather, good flight, and then if there are lots of trekkers that enter the Khumbu Valley, we mostly get like eight clients in the day or 12, something like that, and, like you know, sometimes like there will be like 16 clients in the day.

Speaker 1:

And do you think you doing this job is inspiring more women from the communities to train and do a similar job?

Speaker 4:

Yes, yes it, It's good for the humans because they have good income and then the easy work. I guess this is a very easy work, and they just need to work like a week and then they get a holiday and, yeah, no pressure at all. I think this is good for communities and then good for the ladies to work in Khumbu Valley.

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That was this episode's hidden hero, the person or people doing vital work in the communities they work in to preserve culture, wildlife or community. I really love Namgyal's story. The fact that she started only a few years ago as a therapist and now is managing one of the practices - how inspiring. I was also impressed by the impact and ripple effect Lehara has made in Nepal, a charity that is supported through donations by Explore. I only wish it had been set up when I walked to Everest back in 2013.

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Speaking of the past, it's nearly the end of the episode, so time for me to share with you my utterly incredible Wander Woman of the Month, the traveller whose name is lost in the history books purely because of her gender. I hope you've enjoyed what you've heard. Please do subscribe so you never miss an episode, and please do leave a review. It means so very much. You can follow me on Instagram @Phoebe R Smith, find me on Blue Sky or go to my website, phoebe-smith. com, where you can sign up for my occasional newsletter and, of course, send me a message. Now this episode we head to Louisiana in the USA, to meet a Voodoo Queen.

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It's a Sunday morning in Congo Square in the Treme neighborhood of New Orleans, Louisiana, in the mid-1800s. Hundreds of people enslaved and free Africans have come here to gather, to sing, dance and play music. The sounds are incredible. Descendants from each country are gathered in different parts of the square. Some are wearing traditional African dress, sometimes with bells and ribbons, some of the men wear nothing but a red sash, and others are dressed in their own cultural attire, from Native Americans to those from the Far East. At the centre of it is a woman, Marie Laveau, aka the Voodoo Queen of New Orleans.

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Congo Square was more than just a place for enslaved black people to express themselves. It was also a space for spiritual unity. Marie Laveau led voodoo dances and rituals, practices that were a mix of religions, including Haitian voodoo, which developed separately, Catholicism and, notably, voodoo from Dahomey in present-day Benin. Louisiana voodoo, as it became known, gathered followers in New Orleans all along the Mississippi River, and Marie Laveau was perhaps its most famous practitioner.

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Marie Catherine Laveau was born in 1801 in New Orleans to , an African woman, and Charles Laveau, who was thought to be the son of a white Louisiana Creole politician. She appears in the records in 1819 when she married Jacques Paris, a free man who came from Saint-Domingue in modern-day Haiti. They had two daughters who died in childbirth and in 1823 Jacques himself died. She later entered a relationship with Christophe-Dominique-Dominy de Glapion, with whom she had seven children, but only two survived into adulthood. Her daughter, Marie Laveau II, would also go on to become a famed voodoo queen in her own right.

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She began her career as a hairdresser for wealthy New Orleans families, but during these sessions she would quietly gather information from her patrons and their servants and cleverly use it to give them insightful advice. When they visited her Through the doors of her house on St Anne Street in the Treme neighbourhood, visitors would find Marie Laveau to impart advice for all manner of problems, from domestic disputes to finances, childcare and to seek luck. She would also sell visitors voodoo charms known as grigri. In the backyard of the house, she held ceremonies to conjure the spirit of great zombie, the voodoo deity Dambula Weddo, who would appear as a snake.

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Throughout her life, which spanned the 1800s, Marie Laveau became the confidante of many New Orleanians and was described as a mother of many. She advised wealthy politicians, assisted the poor, helped the sick and protected people against any evil spirits. A portrait of her shows her wearing a white turban with a red stripe and a shawl hung over a black dress. She is said to have had serious understanding eyes and was considered to be the most powerful voodoo queen, and on St John's Eve, on the 23rd of June 1874, an estimated 12,000 people went to the shores of Lake Pontchartrain to watch her perform a religious ceremony. Her influence today still remains as a figurehead of the voodoo revival.

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There were, of course, rivals to the voodoo queen crown, notably a Creole woman called Rosalie, who had a life-size wooden doll in her front garden, covered in carvings and adorned with amulets. Marie eventually took the doll and the informal crown remained hers. Marie Laveau died in 1881, and with her many of the adherents to Louisiana voodoo. The rites and rituals became integrated in other religions and life in New Orleans, many of which can still be seen on the streets of the city today. Despite this, Marie is widely remembered in the city, with thousands of locals still visiting her grave in St Louis Cemetery no 1.

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Many light a candle or leave flowers and trinkets for the voodoo queen, a woman who used her position to help the sick and needy, enslaved people of 19th century New Orleans. Yet because of her association with voodoo, a practice Hollywood and the white population sought to vilify. Her name is not one known much outside of the city, and so we take this episode, with its focus on voodoo and, more importantly, its integral part of West African culture, to celebrate all that she achieved, all who she united not easy at a time when women were still considered inferior to men and that's why Marie Laveau is this episode's Wander Woman of the Month.

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That was my ever-inspiring Wander Woman of the Month, the historical heroine I believe the world needs to know about and celebrate.

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In the next episode of the Wander Woman podcast, I head to Cornwall to follow in the footsteps of Raynor Winn, author of The Salt Path, which has been made into a film and comes to cinemas on May 30th. I catch up with Ray herself to find out what it's like to have had your life made into a film and be played by Gillian Anderson. I'll be sharing the 10 best coastal paths around the world. Meet travel influencer Lucy Edwards, who talks about how being blind doesn't mean you can't have adventures, and, as always, I'll be revealing my kick-ass Wander Woman of the month. See you next time, Wander Woman out..

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The Wander Woman podcast is written and edited by me, Phoebe Smith. The producer and writer of additional material is Daniel Nielson. The logo was designed by John Summerton. A huge thanks to this episode's podcast partners, Explore, who made all this possible. Do check out the fantastic Benin and Togo trip I went on, as well as the many others they offer at explore. co. uk. A final thanks to all the people I met on my journey and were willing to talk to me. It's because of you that this podcast is able to happen at all.