Wander Woman: A Travel Podcast

The monthly Wander Woman Podcast frequently charts in 'Travel and Places' in over 147 countries around the world. It is the first travel podcast to take on a magazine style - rather than the format of just an interview – and has been listened to and downloaded everywhere from the UK to Australia and beyond, by hundreds of thousands of people. It has been selected as “Best of” travel podcasts by The Telegraph, The Guardian and The i newspaper, Globetrender and Tech Times - to name a few.

Every episode, award-winning broadcaster, travel writer, author and photographer Phoebe Smith offers a behind the scenes journey to a different destination which features interviews with locals, audio clips and vivid descriptions to make the listener feel like they are there too - without having to leave home.

The main ‘destination’ story weaves together her passion for finding off-the-beaten track places, undertaking quirky and unusual activities, discovering wild spaces in unlikely mass market destinations, watching wildlife and meeting the unsung heroes behind conservation efforts.

Additionally the Wander Woman Podcast’s regular features a celebrity interview; Best Travel Gear for a life on the road; Travel Hack of the Month; Top 10 in Travel; Hidden Hero; and the Wander Woman of the Month - the traveller whose name is lost in the history books.

Wherever you find yourself - come wander with her…

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Wander Woman: A Travel Podcast

The Salt Path

May 28, 2025 • Phoebe Smith • Season 3 • Episode 5

Can walking a coastal path really heal a broken heart? As bestselling book The Salt Path becomes a major film starring Gillian Anderson and Jason Issacs, Wander Woman Phoebe Smith heads to author Raynor Winn's favourite 2-day section of the South West Coast Path in Cornwall - walking from Zennor to Minnack. Along the way she meets other hikers and discovers the power of simply placing one foot in front of the other.

Also coming up:

Raynor Winn shares who she really thought would play her in a movie and explains why the path will always be her home
Travel Hack: Prepare for your first long distance path
10 best coastal paths arounds the world
Meet BBC presenter and disability advocate Lucy Edwards about traveling while blind – including on safari
Pack the kit you really need for walking the South West Coast Path
Sarah Stoddart Hazlitt, who walked nearly 300 miles to process her divorce in 1822, is our Wander Woman of the Month

Contact Wander Woman

www.Phoebe-Smith.com; @PhoebeRSmith

Speaker 1: 0:35

on this month's Wander Woman podcast...

Speaker 2: 0:38

We stood at Land's End in an incredible storm and there was nobody there, just us and the Atlantic and waves breaking over that headland, and we really could have given up, but at that point we just realised how much that path was giving us.

Speaker 1: 0:58

As the film version of the best-selling book The Salt Path heads to cinemas. I chat to author Raynor Winn to find out how a long walk in Cornwall saved her and her husband's life. I also head to the South West Coast Path in England's Cornwall, to her favourite section, from Zennor to Porthcurno, and speak to other walkers undertaking their own personal journeys along the route.

Speaker 3: 1:18

To be honest, I don't know what I want to do with my life career-wise, so I just thought you know what? Why not walk the whole end of Britain?

Speaker 1: 1:26

And I meet BBC broadcaster, TikTok star and disability advocate, Lucy Edwards, whose catchphrase and title of her 2024 book Blind, not Broken she really proved when she answered the question: why would a blind person go on safari?

Speaker 4: 1:40

I used to think, oh yeah, why would you? You can't see the animals. Why would you? Because there's so many different things to a safari that you can experience.

Speaker 1: 1:50

Also coming up how to prepare for your first multi-day hike. In this month's Travel Hack, 10 of the Best Coastal Paths Around the World, and in my regular Gear chat, I help you pack for walking your own Salt Path. Finally, I'll be revealing this episode's Wander Woman of the Month, the traveller whose name is lost in the history books. You're listening to the Wander Woman podcast, an audio travel magazine, with me, adventurer Phoebe Smith, exploring off the beaten track destinations, wild spaces, wildlife encounters and the unsung heroes behind conservation efforts. Come wander with me.

Speaker 1: 2:25

I'm stood on a white sand beach in Cornwall known as Portheras Cove. I followed a river to get down here, beside huge rocks that over time, have fallen from the cliffs above me in front of my boots. The waves lap against the shore and the sea is impossibly blue. I take out my sandwiches and sit on one of the boulders. It sounds idyllic, I know, but the story that brought me here is one tinged with sadness. I'm following a section of the South West Coast Path that features in the book, and now film, of The Salt Path, a story about a woman called Raynor Winn - or Ray as she likes to be known - who in quick succession loses her home and finds out her husband is battling a terminal illness, and so, with nothing else to do, they both decide to walk this footpath. Now, though, things are better in terms of having a place to live, they do still like to come back and visit.

Speaker 2: 3:22

There are parts I go back to over and over. There's a bit from Zennor around to the Minack on the south coast and I go back to that bit over and over again because when we walked it it was like a. It wasn't just like turning a point in the physical geographical landscape, it was like a turning point for us because I think we stood at land's end in an incredible storm and there was nobody there, just us and the Atlantic and waves breaking over that headland and we really could have given up. But at that point we just realised how much that path was giving us, how much life it was giving us back that we thought we would never see again.

Speaker 4: 4:13

I spoke to Ray, who I've known since she mentioned my book Extreme Sleeps and the TSalt Path Path when it came out in 2018, before I had any intention of going back to Cornwall. I've been many times before, walked many sections of the coastal path, but was not planning a revisit. Yet life works in mysterious ways, and not long after she had told me about her favourite section between Zenner and the Minnack Theatre, my partner and father of my child announced he was going to leave me. I was broken. And so, at a loss to know how I would begin to heal, I jumped on a sleeper train to Penzance, then called a taxi to make my way to Zennor, to walk the first 15 of the 30 miles I would cover over two days, in the hope I would get some clarity, like Ray and Moth had all those years before. On my way, the driver, Kass, offered advice which, unbeknowingly to him, was somehow prescient.

Speaker 3: 5:07

You're going to figure this out today. You're probably on the worst bit of it today. Yeah, yeah, you've done the hardest bit first.

Speaker 1: 5:15

With his words ringing in my head, I headed out on the t,eyond t eyond b, where Ray and Moth in the book had wandered into during a storm to seek temporary shelter. As I reached the clifftop, the sun was struggling to break through the clouds, the wind was whistling wildly through my hair and the waves crashed below the cliffs, the landscape pretty much embodying my inner emotional squall. It was March, so the early spring palette was only occasionally broken up with the splash of colour from the yellow gorse flowers. I began to walk into the wind. At the spur of Gurnard's Head, I met another walker, the first for me that day. His name was Reid. He had just begun a three-month journey from Land's End to John O'Groats, raising money for the British Heart Foundation in memory of his grandma and father, both of whom died within the past two years. I asked him what made him do it.

Speaker 3: 6:13

I previously just did like a warehouse job to raise some money to be able to fund it. Yeah, and to be honest, I don't know what I want to do with my life career-wise. So I just thought you know what? Why not walk the whole end of Britain?

Speaker 1: 6:25

Death and grief had definitely played a motivator for Reid, but not only death, also the flip side, the realisation of time and the chance we have to live. And so I left him reminded a little of losing my own moment around his age and felt a tiny spark of hope somewhere deep inside. But I don't want it to sound like you can only do or undertake a long distance path because you're processing something traumatic. As the next walkers I met, and Derek from Brighton reminded me when the trail began to reveal signs of the tin mining past.

Speaker 5: 6:59

We decided about four years ago that we were going to try and do the whole of the South West Coast Ppath. I think we'd done one or two sections when we'd been on sort of holidays here before and really enjoyed the walking, and then we both read The salt path.

Speaker 1: 7:14

A friend recommended the salt path and we thought oh, that sounds good, that's a good challenge too.

Speaker 5: 7:19

Yeah, so we went for it didn't we. Our daughter used to work at Waterstones when she was starting her career. And this friend of ours went into Waterstones, where our daughter went, she bought ten copies of the Salt Path and she just was handing them all out to her friends. So we obviously read it and thought actually I can't believe what they went through.

Speaker 1: 7:41

Yet just when I thought it was as simple as them reading a good book and wanting to see the backdrop, fiona added something that made me realise that, though they weren't processing grief, they were dealing with a change.

Speaker 5: 7:53

As you're transitioning in life from working to not working. You know neither of us. We've always been quite active. We didn't want to just become those,y You ou know retired people who sit in a rocking chair with slippers on all day, and actually this was a challenge, wasn't it?

Speaker 1: 8:07

Just before I reached Portheras Cove, where I sat and contemplated my life over lunch, I met a couple more walkers John and Jane from Devon, who'd completed the whole pathway in 10 years and now just did their favourite sections. Then a young solo female walker called Miriam, who'd come over from Germany to walk the Cornish section with her tent during a two-month period between jobs. I asked her: have you heard of a book called

Speaker 7: 8:32

Yeah, I did. Have you read it. Yeah, sure, yeah, and I'm reading, actually, the second part of this book right now. Okay, yeah, I liked it. I had the idea of coming here before, but when I told people they were like oh, you have to read that book. It's pretty cool.

Speaker 1: 8:51

It shouldn't be a surprise, but I found it funny to think of a coastal path in Britain inspiring people from overseas to come and walk, and I also thought it was an interesting choice for Miriam during what was clearly a time of reflection in between switching careers.

Speaker 1: 9:05

I continued on my route, passing the crumbling engine houses and chimney stacks around Geevor and Botallock, and smiled and thought of my son wI temporarily shared the trail with local school children being guided by teachers, my emotions were mixed, but it had been a kind of tonic, getting an insight into other people's lives on this walking trail that connects us all together. Finally, I reached Cape Cornwall, the promontary that until 200 years ago was believed to be the furthest south west in the country, further than Land's End, and marked the end of my day one. I checked into the Cape Cornwall Club, the only accommodation close to the trail at St Just, and watched the sun set and think about what Ray felt at this point in their journey. The next morning I met Robin, the reception manager, who told me about the walkers she sees.

Speaker 6: 9:58

This time of year we get more solo walkers, but then in the summer we get quite a lot of groups. Last year I remember having a group of six or eight people. So those kind of big groups tend to do it more for charity. But then we do also get groups of two or three couples joined together as well. We're getting more. But you mean, you get such a range. You get families doing it with their six-year-olds and you get older people who have retired and they're just kind of filling in gaps from bits that they did when they were younger and now they're just coming in to do the odd bits and pieces that they skipped out back when they did it properly.

Speaker 1: 10:37

What Robin described nicely sums up a lot of who I'd met already. I found it fascinating that the solo walkers are here, more like me in the off-season. But more wonderful was this idea of older people coming back to do something together when they had time. After a night spent tossing and turning trying to make sense of my personal predicament, I must confess it was a relief to be back out in the sea air, simply putting one foot in front of the other, thinking of very little at all. As I reached the pretty village at Sennen and started thinking that perhaps I could bring my son here to walk a section with me when he was a little older, I met one of the couples Robin described, s<span Sally style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; font-size: 13px; white-space-collapse: collapse; background-color: transparent;">Sally and Hugh, a retired pair from Kent, who told me that they visit every single year to tick off sections of the path. I asked how long had they been doing it? and Hugh, a retired pair from Kent, who told me that they visit every single year to tick off sections of the path. I asked how long had they been doing it?

Speaker 1: 11:25

Since 1986, when we first came down here for our honeymoon. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2: 11:30

So we went to Prussia Cove, which is Porthenal Porthenal's which is near Marazion.

Speaker 1: 11:38

It was heartening to see a genuinely in-love couple, nearly 40 years since they honeymooned here on this same path on which they started out their lives together, and indeed Ray's story is one of sorrow but also love between her and her partner that is played out against the drama of the sea. I marched on to Land's End where, when the path turns east, I found myself battling the bitter wind. Once again, I was quite alone until I reached the unexpectedly open shelter at Gwennap Head, where people have been watching out for others along this stretch of coast since the 1900s. While resting, a couple called Peter and Michelle were walking part of the path and stopped by. We passed pleasantries and I asked them if they were planning to walk the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 12:25

That is the plan actually. That is the plan long term, if we have time, but it's a multi-year project.

Speaker 1: 12:32

I said my farewells and moved on, unaware that they were any different from any of the other couples I'd spoken to, who were out simply enjoying the trail.

Speaker 1: 12:40

Yet when I reached my finish line at the Minack Theatre, peter caught up with me and revealed that his words if we have time had a deeper meaning. peter. P ou see, in a strange twist of fate, similar to Ray's husband, moth had recently been diagnosed with a stage four brain tumour, with no cure and no idea how long he had left. I was floored. It felt like an incredible privilege to be told something like this by a stranger. He seemed relieved to have revealed it and I felt something too, a forcing of perspective of my own situation, a realisation that, though we pass others on this great pathway over 630 miles of it and maybe share pleasantries, we very rarely have any idea what's going on beneath the surface. I certainly had made an effort to put on my usual cheery persona for all to see, and it's undoubtedly what Ray and Moth also had to project when they were walking to survive along this trail. I asked Ray how Moth is doing now, to which she replied: he's not had the best year.

Speaker 2: 13:44

It's been difficult in some unexpected ways, but he's still here and he's still fighting through every day. He's walking at the moment, and that's all you can hope for, isn't it, that you can get up in the morning and go for a walk.

Speaker 1: 13:59

And perhaps that's the biggest takeaway from all this that no matter what life throws at you, no matter how hard it feels, the important thing is that you continue to do what you can, simply putting one foot in front of the other, one step at a time. That was me walking a section of the South West Coast Path, following in the footsteps of author Raynor ina Wynne, whose book the Salt Path has been made into a film starring Gillian Anderson and Jason Isaacs, and who I seem to share an odd kind of connection with through books. Walking and footpaths discovered the power of a walking path can be monumental, life-changing and indeed life-affirming. So many of you will now be itching to do it. But what's the next step? Sorry, follow me as I take you to my travel hack of the month. This episode, it's all about preparing for a long-distance hike. That's it. Decision made, a long-distance walking holiday. It is. But how do you go from making the decision to embark on a lengthy walk across some countryside to taking that first ride out your door? This isn't about giving you a packing list. This travel hack is about getting you prepared mentally for several days on the trail. So the first thing is know your terrain, buy a map, learn to read the contours and ask are there coastal cliffs or is this walk along the beach?

Speaker 1: 15:20

One of the things that often surprises new walkers is the undulating nature of a coastal path. The ascent is often just as much as going up a big mountain. In Scotland, the South West Coast Path has the same amount of ascent as climbing Everest four times. Sandy and boggy terrain can take twice as long to cover the same distance as if you're walking on the flat surface, and following rivers means a lot of meandering rather than going in straight lines. If you use mapping apps such as the OS Maps, you'll be able to see the overall amount of ascent when plotting your route, which can help prepare you massively. The other element of a coastal or mountainous walk is that it's often forgotten that occasionally there's some fairly impressive exposure. Yep, that is the edge of a cliff and no, there isn't a fence. Make sure you're okay with the exposure or, if not, choose sections that don't weave quite so close to the edge, or look for alternative routes.

Speaker 1: 16:13

Another unexpected thing that is often realised is well, how long a long walk is. When was the last time you spent all day just wandering. If you're going alone, imagine what it would be like spending that long with your own thoughts. It can be amazing, but it can sometimes feel a bit lonely or hard, with no one to buoy you through the tough bits with camaraderie. However, if you're going with someone else, imagine what that feels like too. Spending all day with another person or people also doesn't happen too much. It can be boring, can be revealing. You can suddenly realise just how much they talk or don't. It can be hard, but it can also be fun, exciting or inspiring, and very frequently, all of the above.

Speaker 1: 16:53

Also. Be sure to factor in a day off or a lazy morning at least, perhaps a pub stop or a night in a nice hotel or B&B. You're not in the army, after all. You'll be grateful for a break, so don't be afraid to treat yourself. One of the ways to add to the experience is to document it in some way. I'm usually writing something, but you can too A diary or a journal, perhaps write some poetry as you go along, or use voice notes on your phone to remember how a particular part of the path made you feel.

Speaker 1: 17:21

The easiest thing to do is to consider your photography by approaching the walk through the lens of a camera is to offer a different perspective. It's incredible, the details you pick up. Who knows, you too could end up being immortalised on film by Gillian Anderson or Jason Isaacs. Finally, make sure you're physically prepared. Get some long day walks in first and with a full backpack, if that's what you're going to be carrying on the walk itself.

Speaker 1: 17:44

It's also a good opportunity to hone your packing list. Wear in your shoes and get your backpack adjusted. You don't want the first few hours of your walk to be fiddling with straps or putting on blister plasters. That was my Wander Woman travel hack, the advice I offer each month to make sure you're prepared for a life informing adventure. Which leads me on nicely to this episode's special guest author, Raynor Winn, or Ray as she prefers, whose book the Salt Path is a multi-million copy bestseller. I caught up with her before the film came out to find out how her big screen walk came about, how she felt about it being told on screen and how it was to be played by Gillian Anderson.

Speaker 2: 18:27

Starting that walk came at the end of a really sort of difficult week quite possibly the worst week I've ever had when a really badly judged financial arrangement with a friend ended in a court case which saw us being served with an eviction notice from our house.

Speaker 2: 18:45

It was our home, where we'd lived for 20 years, and during the week that they gave us to pack everything and leave, my husband Moth had what we thought was going to be a really routine hospital appointment, but instead he was diagnosed with a terminal, life-changing illness that has no treatment, no cure. It's a neurodegenerative condition called corticobasal degeneration, and at that point it was like our whole lives just fell apart and we got nowhere to go. There was no accommodation available to us, nobody who could help us really, and it was in the last few moments before we left the house. We were literally standing under the stairs as the bailiffs were knocking at the door, just couldn't bring ourselves to make those last few steps out of the door. When I saw a book in a packing case about someone who'd walked the South West Coast path and just in that moment it seemed like the most obvious thing to do fill a rucksack and go for a walk. And it's that walk that became the story.

Speaker 1: 20:02

That was the salt path, and it's an incredible story, and did you ever think it would have the impact that it has had?

Speaker 2: 20:11

Not in the slightest. No, because when I wrote it it was a couple of years after we'd finished walking and Moth's illness was sort of progressing to the point where I was starting to lose his memory of things, starting to forget bits and pieces, and certainly forget bits from the path. So I went through the guidebook you know those little brown plastic backed guidebooks and um, and I started to write up the little penciled notes he put in the margin of the book, thinking that was all I needed to do. But then when I read it back, it didn't quite capture it. And that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to capture that path for him to remember.

Speaker 2: 20:53

So I wrote it as as it was. Um, I wrote it so that he would read it and smell the salt. That was the plan. And I printed it off on a home printer. And I never remember the printer was never forget. Sorry, the printer was running out of ink and it started out black and it ended up pink With bits of paper and I tied it up with string and gave it to him for his birthday and that's all it was going to be at that point. So never dreamt in a million years that it would have become what it has.

Speaker 1: 21:29

I mean, it's become so big. And you, I think the guidebook that you used was Paddy Dillon's Cicerone guidebook to the southwest coast path, and Paddy Dillon, known as this, um, he just knocks out guide books all the time. He's a he's a legend of the guidebook. Um, how, how do you feel now, knowing that there are walkers on the southwest coast path that have actually used your book as a bit of a guide?

Speaker 2: 21:54

it's such a strange experience to to go back out on the path now and meet people who who might not know who I am and say, oh, we're here because we've read this great book. You should read it, it's really good.

Speaker 1: 22:12

I mean when I mean at the time, like you said, you were battling with an awful time of your life, with losing your home, with Moth's illness. Did you ever in your wildest dreams think that people would suddenly hear about your story and be inspired to change something in their own life?

Speaker 2: 22:32

Absolutely not, because our focus was entirely on just existing, just getting through the next day, just thinking about where we were going to sleep or where the food was coming from, and so to think that anybody was even vaguely interested in our story was, um, no, why would get me?

Speaker 1: 22:52

and then obviously you said you you started off writing it as almost like an aide-memoire for moth and I think it's it's. You know, like you said, it's very personal, it's. It's almost a love story, as much as anything else. I think when you read the Salt Path, was there any part of you once it was like, oh, I'm actually going to publish it and put it out beyond Moth just reading it. Was there a part of you that was reticent about sharing so much of yourself?

Speaker 2: 23:18

oh goodness, yeah, absolutely. But by that point I'd already I'd completely finished manuscript and that's what had gone to the publishers, yeah, so when, when they had it and it went into the editing process and I was trying to like cut bits out because it's like I don't want to share that, I really don't want to share my bowel habits with people, it was like no, this is the meat of the story, this is you know, this is the stuff and, try as I might, they wouldn't cut that beach scene out. Yeah, it was very, very odd to think I'd shared something so personal with what at the time. I thought you know younger publishers at the time when it was published and I said, well, what would you be happy with? What sort of numbers would you be happy with? And they said, well, if it sells 10,000, that's doing really well, yeah, and then so I thought I don't share this with 10,000 people. Yeah, but now I've shared it with quite a lot more than 10,000.

Speaker 1: 24:27

So, moving on to that, then most people at some point play the game of if the, if my life was ever made into a movie, who would I want to play me? Um, the salt path is now a film. Uh, would you have chosen Gillian Anderson to play you?

Speaker 2: 24:42

well, she wasn't my the first person to cross my mind, because of course there was a question got asked quite a lot in book events if this was a movie, who would you, who would you have play you? And I always used to say, oh, olivia Colman, because she'll get the irony, yeah, yeah. And then I always just say, but what do you think? To the audience? And they would always come back and say Meryl Streep. And it would always end in a conversation about turning it into a musical and headwinds.,G So,Gillian Anderson, you know, so glamorous, so well known, certainly, what didn't cross my mind?

Speaker 1: 25:20

no, no, exactly. And how about uh moth? How does he feel about being portrayed by jason isaacs? Does he think that's a fair?

Speaker 2: 25:28

absolutely stunned because, um, obviously we all know jason isaacs predominantly from the harry potter films, um, but when we met him, he's just the most lovely man and perfect to play Moth. He couldn't be more perfect. But we did visit the film on set when it was being filmed.

Speaker 2: 25:52

It was in the Valley of the Rocks oh yeah and I hadn't been back there since we walked through with our rucksacks. So to go there and to see ourselves being portrayed in that what had been a really difficult, vulnerable point in our journey because it was really quite early on, yeah and as we passed through there to so to see somebody playing us in that for what for me had been such a difficult time, um, it really brought back loads of emotions that I hadn't been quite so connected to in recent times. Yeah, so it was a far more emotional day than I ever expected.

Speaker 1: 26:48

I can imagine, and yeah, like you said, just seeing someone else. It's like seeing your life played out for you and yeah, suddenly that connection with something you've kind of found a place for in your memories and in your past is suddenly now your present. It must be quite jarring.

Speaker 2: 27:04

Yeah, it was very strange also then to realize that they use quite a lot of doubles in the production of a film. So to see ray and moth coming from all over the hillsides, that that was strange I bet it was, and then you're actually there as well, and did they?

Speaker 1: 27:24

did they ever sort of ask for your take on it as it was going, or were you very much, were just here to observe?

Speaker 2: 27:30

I was just observing, because I've come to find to understand that a film adaptation of a book is very much that it's an adaptation. It's someone else's interpretation of your story.

Speaker 1: 27:48

How important with that in mind is the South West Coast Pass to you now. Is it still a bit like a main character in your life?

Speaker 2: 27:59

I think it is. I think it's become sort of like the main thread of my life really, because I still live in Cornwall. I've lived in Cornwall ever since we finished walking. Yeah. It's become just where we are Since the salt path. We did another big walk. We went to Scotland and walked back to cornwall. You know what that's like?

Speaker 2: 28:25

it's quite I know what that's like, yeah but as we got back into cornwall and we sort of hit the the south coast um, and we were going to do the last three days along the coast path, well, I came over headland and I suddenly realised my feet were actually already on the coast path and there was this overwhelming sense of homecoming I think that I haven't had since that last day when we walked out of the door of our house and I thought this is what this path has become now. It's become home in a way. A house probably never will be for me again, I think.

Speaker 1: 29:08

I have to ask you one last question, which is a question that I ask everyone who I have on the podcast, which is what's the one piece of gear that you never walk anywhere without?

Speaker 2: 29:18

well, if anyone's read the Salt Path, or especially Landlines, I never, ever leave the house without a pack of compeed blister plasters.

Speaker 1: 29:28

That was the lovely Raynor Winn, author of the book and now film the Salt Path, which is out now. She's also about to release her fourth book and embark on a Salt Lines Music collaboration tour all around the UK. More details about Ray's latest projects can be found on her Instagram account win Now. Ray may have shot to fame with her story of walking the South West Coast path, but that's just one of many hundreds of coastal paths found around the globe. So to fuel your wanderlust, no matter what's going on in your life, consider walking one of these waterside trails with this episode's top 10. At 10, we're starting in Brittany with the GR34 that traverses the coast of Brittany itself, mainly because this podcast's editor recently returned from walking parts of this 2,000 kilometre long footpath and raved all about it. Thanks Daniel. The dramatic rockscapes, the beaches, the oysters many of the oysters actually Jauntily walking into. Ninth place is Australia's Great Ocean Walk in Victoria, west of Melbourne. It is 104 kilometres of surf-smashed cliffs and remote beaches, eucalyptus forests and creek crossings. Between Apollo Bay and the unmissable limestone stacks of the Twelve Apostles, expect to see koalas, kookaburras, kangaroos and other wildlife. That doesn't begin with the letter K. At eight we're staying in the Southern Hemisphere for South Africa's quaintly named Otter Trail. The five-day walk winds along the whims of the coastline from Sitsikama National Park in the Garden Route Eastern Cape One highlight is the hangingims of the coastline from Sitzikama National Park in the garden route eastern Cape. One highlight is the hanging bridge over the Storm's River mouth. And you never know, you may see the elusive Cape Claude Otter At seven. It's the Sentiero Azzurro, or Blue Trail in Italy. You'll recognise the towns from photos of the Amalfi Coast, but walking along the surprisingly hair-raising 12km UNESCO-protected path is a joy. It connects the five colourful towns of the Cinque Terre, each more photogenic than the last. And why not do what a friend did and swim a couple of the stages? One for the off-season, though, if you don't like crowds.

Speaker 1: 31:36

At six we're taking on the Causeway Coast Way in Northern Ireland, a two-day walk from Port Stewart to Ballycastle, which crosses over the famous Giant's Causeway and winds its way along this dramatic coastline. The trail threads legends and geology, along with walking access rights, history. Look up Wilfred Capper. It's dotted with castles, rope bridges and sea-carved arches. Lush At five. It's one of my favourite trails ever the West Coast Trail on Vancouver Island. This 75-kilometre stretch stitches together ancient paths and trade routes. It is tough, often muddy, and there are more than 100 ladder systems to clamber up one for the tough-minded and wild-hearted, but what a memory to be created. At four is another trail I've partly walked the Comano Codo Nacahetchi route, a pilgrim path that meets the Pacific coast. This six-day trail connects remote coastal villages and ancient shrines. It's a great way to meet locals on the way too, and is twinned with the Camino de Santiago pilgrimage in Spain.

Speaker 1: 32:41

At three, there is a country that is finally being talked about as one of the up-and-coming destinations Albania. I went there first back in 2011 and loved it. The 74-kilometre southern coastal trail heads along the country's beautiful southern Riviera. A particular highlight is the food at the villages you'll pass through and the locally run guest houses. No chains here, yet A spectacular way to get food at the villages you'll pass through and the locally run guest houses no chains here. Yet A spectacular way to get to know the country before everyone else does.

Speaker 1: 33:08

At two is the whopping 760 kilometre Lycian Way in Turkey. It follows a footpath used by Lycians between their cities and ports. Think tombs and temples, citrus groves and coves lapped by turquoise water. Spectacular food, too, and good weather.

Speaker 1: 33:27

And finally it's to Ireland for the 206km Bearer Way circular walk that starts and ends in Glengarriff and mainly stays in County Cork. It's a national waymark trail around the Bearer Peninsula that passes copper mines and ancient Ogham stones. You may find a pub or two along the way too Fewer crowds than the Ring of Kerry, but just as staggering. I'm not ashamed to admit that. You nearly lost me there. I am this close to lacing up my hiking boots and hitting the trail. Speaking of which, what would I put in my backpack to do a section of the South West Coast Path? There's only one way to find out.

Speaker 1: 34:03

It's time for this month's gear chat. While I'd love to bask in the assertion that the weather here in Britain is always beautiful, the reality is no matter when you decide to walk the South West Coast Path, you need to take waterproofs with you, and that means a jacket and over trousers. Make sure they are large enough to go over the top of your normal trousers, and the jacket should fit over you wearing a top and a fleece or puffer, so don't size down next up, think about shoes. I've always walked the sections I've done in trail shoes rather than boots, but that's because I've been hill walking for nearly 20 years now and so have pretty strong ankles. It's all about what's best for you, though. If you're new to it, I'd suggest boots or at least mid-height footwear that offer some ankle support. Especially if you'll be camping and carrying all your stuff in a backpack with you, the support will definitely help.

Speaker 1: 34:53

Think walking poles are just for old folks or other people. Think again. Not only do walking poles help on tricky sections and river crossings, not to mention help you gauge the depth of a bog and help stabilise you when wearing a large backpack, but they also, when used properly, can help you walk even faster and give your upper body a workout as well as your lower. In short, take them, you won't regret it. Speaking of regret, the biggest tip when it comes to gear is not to overpack. This applies doubly when camping.

Speaker 1: 35:23

Keep it simple One set of clothes to walk in, another to change into at the end of the day. Yes, you will smell on the trail, but everyone does. It's a badge of honour for the serious hiker, and the pleasure you will get from putting on dry socks and underwear at the end of the day is not to be pardon the pun sniffed at Ensure you have the right map or mapping software, though the path is very well marked a water bottle, hat, gloves and, of course, blister plasters. Finally, remember that walking a long distance path is a mental battle as much as a physical one, so the most important thing to pack is the knowledge that you can do it. Happy hiking. That was my regular gear section, the part of the episode where I ensure you are well equipped to enjoy every minute of your own adventures.

Speaker 1: 36:10

Speaking of your own adventures, my next guest, lucy Edwards, lost her eyesight aged just 17 and thought that travel and adventure were not something that would be possible for her. What's the point, she asked herself. Yet now she's a disability advocate working hard to show that travel is for all. She published a book Blind Not Broken and, in 2019, became the BBC's first blind presenter. Hard to believe it took that long right. I caught up with her after she'd got back from her first safari with Sabi Sabi Private Game Reserve in South Africa, who have created inclusive safaris for all, to ask what inspired her to come to terms with her own disability and what it was like to go to see the big five as a blind person.

Speaker 4: 36:53

My name's Lucy Edwards. My pronouns are she, her. I have long, ginger, wavy hair. Usually, I've usually curled it with my air wrap. Um, and my visual description I'm a white lady and I have gym gear on right now because just we're in a fitness journey, um, and I am a bubbly, smiley lady. I'm 29 um, I do content online, primarily on my disability. I'm completely blind. I live with my husband and my two doggies well, my two guide dogs my retired guide dog, olga, and Miss Molly, my new guide dog Well, she's not so new anymore. And, yeah, I love everything online. So I'm a presenter as well RTS award-winning presenter and I'm an author. So, yeah, that's me. Well, so just do a few things then. Oh no, literally sometimes when I reel that off.

Speaker 1: 37:51

I'm like, oh my gosh got loose, stop talking. I think it's wonderful. I think it's wonderful. So obviously you've mentioned that you're blind. Can you tell me a little bit about that, like how it happened, how you lost your eyesight? Can you tell me?

Speaker 4: 38:02

a little bit about that, like how it happened, how you lost your eyesight and when that was. Yeah, absolutely so. Um, I lost my eyesight due to a really rare genetic condition. It's called incontinence ipigmenti a mouthful, and I just say IP for short. Yeah, but it me. It basically means the TLDR in my right eye. Um, I became blind at 11 and left eye at 17 due to both of them having like retinal detachments. Which is our retina, is the wallpaper of the back of our eye and for me, my wallpaper paste. There's too much of it so it just pings off and there's a lot of bleeding there. It doesn't hurt, um, but yeah, um, that's how it happened really and obviously now we've seen you going off traveling.

Speaker 1: 38:45

You know being an advocate to say. You know blind, not broken. Tell me a little bit what your travels were like before you went completely blind so I went on just typical family holidays.

Speaker 4: 38:58

I have been to Florida when I was six years old, to Disneyland. I also went to Disneyland Paris. I was 11. I was definitely a Disney child, yeah, so I saw all of that. Um, you know, I'd go to Spain, um, and France in caravans, different things. So, yeah, it was just a very lovely childhood. I was always in the swimming pool with my sister it's just the two of us and she's 15 months younger than me. Um, so that is kind of what happened.

Speaker 4: 39:24

And then, to be honest, when I lost my eyesight, we didn't go on as many holidays because we're all grieving that, including my parents and, um, yeah it. I kind of just said to myself oh well, holidays aren't the same. And then when I got into the world of work and I was having a conversation with my then boss called Damon, yeah, at the BBC, I was sitting there at lunch and also he was well is blind, um, and Damon said to me oh, you know, you're going on holiday this summer. And I said, oh, no, well, with us, damon. We're like we can't see, can we?

Speaker 4: 39:57

So going on holiday is like just sitting in your back garden, isn't it? He's like don't be silly. I mean, he's like he didn't kind of put me down, but he was just a bit like well, I see it completely differently and I can't see too. So I've just been here, there, everywhere I've been to Iceland, I had these amazing fish and chips and this at the other I went, oh okay, well, I mean, if you see it differently, then I probably you know, we've got a similar disability, so maybe it isn't about just sitting in your back garden, maybe it is about culture language you know all of these different things that you don't have to see history.

Speaker 4: 40:33

Um, and then that changed my mind and I went on to be a bit of a travel journey what was the first trip?

Speaker 1: 40:39

you went on after that oh.

Speaker 4: 40:41

So it took me a while but me and my husband then fiance went to Tenerife and it was the first holiday we booked with our first paycheck. We both moved to London from Birmingham and we were like, oh my god, we're so excited to book a hotel and it was like the hard rock hotel in Tenerife and we were so happy, yeah, and we got engaged. So that was really cute. And then from there I kind of got the bug, I got the itch because I was like, oh well, I could experience this gorgeous weather. And then me and Ollie are a bit manic, like anyone who knows us like, because we both work together and obviously you know he's my husband it's very much like we love just doing traveling for work. So we've been different places with YouTube, to different YouTube offices, but also like from Kenya and Japan with the BBC. He did all my socials and then we had a team that went out with us and, yeah, it's just, it's been one thing after another. Really South Africa it's. It's been one thing after another. Really South Africa

Speaker 1: 41:44

and tell me a amazing A nd bit about the type of traveler you are. Like you know, we all know about those sort of family holidays that you mentioned before, but now it sounds like you've got more adventurous yeah, we have.

Speaker 4: 41:54

So people are gonna think I'm probably mad, but I me and Ollie wouldn't care if tomorrow you said to us just fly to India, we, we love that. If I didn't have a hotel booked, I had no plane and I literally just turned up to the airport, I would find that the best trip of a lot. Like if you just said pack a bag and it's kind of going to be sunny, but also it might be rainy. That is. That is the kind of excitement that I live off. Same with my businesses as well. Like it's just, it's so exciting not to know necessarily.

Speaker 4: 42:28

It's obviously good to plan, but also, you know, there's so many variables anyway when you travel, especially with a disability. There's so much in my kind of disability toolkit that I have that I'm like, well, yes, as long as I plan this 24 hours in advance, um, and I have contacts before I go out there. Yeah, um, most of the time that does happen. But, yeah, we kind of look, I'm, I'm able which I'm really lucky because I have a sighted husband to kind of think on our feet and because we travel as like a pair. Yeah, it's brilliant, yeah, and what sort of excursions do you do?

Speaker 1: 42:59

are you a hiker? Are you into wildlife? What sort of things do you like to do on the ground?

Speaker 4: 43:04

I would say more wildlife hikes. My husband will tell you that it's not my forte. I think with like rugged terrain is very like I will just have my long white cane and it will jab me in the gut so many times, so that isn't that favorable. But if we've like vetted the like to be fair, I did like hike down a massive waterfall with a sighted guide in Kenya I just have to kind of be like right, two of the days I will hike and be a crazy person. It's almost like the challenge of doing it. So if you said to me like Lucy, run 20 miles, I'd love that challenge rather than like, oh, let's have a quiet hike. I just I'm a bit, I think what we're establishing here. I'm a bit adrenaline junkie but I kind of love that. Um. So yeah, I think that is, that's my favorite. But um, what else?

Speaker 4: 43:57

mainly so, if we were to book it, we'd go and get your guide quite a lot it's not not spon, because we always pay, but, um, you know, we'd go like wine tasting, we'd go in um clay model, we'd do a cookery course, we'd do loads of different things with, uh, historical tours. And the last time we actually booked a holiday with our best friends, who, um, their names are reese and soph, and basically that the opposite to me, and all.

Speaker 4: 44:23

So Reese is blind and Sophie's sighted, so it was like it was really cool to go to a tactile museum in Greece and feel all of the different busts and then go to the Acropolis and then listen to the historical tour, because then me and Reese had all those memories to like draw upon of our day at the tactile museum beforehand.

Speaker 1: 44:41

So, yeah, we do everything and it's amazing and you recently went on safari with sabi sabi and you made a reel on instagram answering a question you felt many people would have, which was why go on a safari if you can't see anything? What would be your response?

Speaker 4: 44:55

to that. So I used to think, oh yeah, why would you? You can't see the animals. Why would you? Um, because there's so many different things to a safari that you can experience. Yeah, I love being in the jeep, and instantly because it's an open top jeep you're suddenly, you know, you're hearing the sounds of the bush different times of day. You hear all these different things. You have a guide that is audio describing your guide.

Speaker 4: 45:22

Also, jamil was amazing because he had his bag of tricks is what he called it, so he had different tactile models from the sabi sabi shop. So every time we heard different things, you would, you know, feel the different tactile models. He collected different fur and things from different kills. I had a 3d mic, like a surround sound mic, where I just held it up as a big disc when we heard a lion kill. The thrill of being outside, like understanding that when you're at Sabi Sabi, which is kind of a luxury resort, it's all the food and you know they say welcome home to you so much. I mean I reeled off so many. Yeah, what would you?

Speaker 1: 45:59

say, to blind or visually impaired people who think that they cannot travel anymore or won't get a good experience when they do.

Speaker 4: 46:08

Oh, that thought has to get in the bin. I understand why you feel it, because I have been there, I have done that, I've got the T-shirt. There's so many barriers when you have a disability. You know from even just getting on the airplane having assistance that is possibly a bit crummy, not being understood, I guess, in you don't have your native language. When you go abroad there are a lot of different hurdles, but I think it's enabled me to be so much more resilient and not giving the people that I guess don't understand you and your disability the key to your mind.

Speaker 1: 46:38

That was my hidden hero, the person or people doing vital work in their communities. I loved Lucy's enthusiasm for showing that a disability should never be seen as a barrier for adventures. I know she will inspire so many people who are visually impaired and teach many of us who are not about life without sight. And from one Wander Woman to another it's nearly the end of the episode, so time for me to share with you my utterly incredible Wander Woman of the Month the traveller whose name is lost the history books purely because of her gender. I hope you've enjoyed what you've heard. Please do subscribe so you never miss an episode, and please do leave a review. It means so very much. You can follow me on Instagram at Phoebe R Smith, find me on Blue Sky or go to my website, phoebe-smithcom, where you can sign up for my occasional newsletter and, of course, send me a message.

Speaker 1: 47:28

Now this episode. After dedicating it to the sheer power of a footpath, we head north to Scotland in 1822, where our heroine is walking to try to come to terms with her broken relationship. It's May, among the hills and lakes of Loch Lomond and the Trossachs National Park in the central belt of Scotland, a storm is brewing, grey clouds are billowing on the horizon and rain is threatening. above;.above. . Beneath this epic sky walks a lone woman. She is crossing the most dreary, swampy and pathless part on her way to the village of Luss, when the skies finally open and she is overcome with the fear of losing myself in such a lonely place. There are many reasons we walk. Sometimes it's to breathe the fresh air, sometimes it's to see the countryside. It's nearly always to connect to the environment around us. But underlying that, as we've heard about throughout this episode, the personal reasons for long-distance walking can be very, very personal.

Speaker 1: 48:35

For Sarah Stoddart-Hazlitt, it was a bizarre and somewhat sad set of circumstances that led her to this walking tour in Scotland alone Over a series of several weeks. She, before a non-walker, ended up covering huge distances in remote and wild parts of the Scottish mountains. The reason Her whole world was crumbling around her. You may recognise her surname Hazlitt. She was married to the essayist and critic William Hazlitt, friend of Coleridge Keats, and yes to the essayist and critic William Hazlitt, friend of Coleridge Keats, and yes, wordsworth, william Hazlitt had fallen madly in love with Sarah Stoddart after being introduced to her by the writer Mary Lamb around 1807, and they married soon after, in 1808.

Speaker 1: 49:19

Sarah was 34. By then she'd had plenty of suitors and courtships, but it was William Hazlitt whom she chose to spend the rest of her life with. A year after getting married, she had a baby boy, who died just six months later. She miscarried her second but then gave birth to her only child to reach adulthood, william, in 1811. She was happy. She was contented, but, unbeknown to her, hazlitt became obsessed with Sarah Walker, the daughter of his landlord, and sought a divorce from Sarah. Her marriage had broken down. Divorcing in England at that time was a costly affair requiring an Act of Parliament. So, determined to make it happen, hazlitt devised a plan to divorce in Scotland where, after 40 days of residence, they could file for the dissolution of marriage. It involved Stoddart accidentally discovering Hazlitt with a prostitute, accusing him of adultery and filing for divorce. Sarah agreed, and so for 40 days she found herself alone in Edinburgh with nothing to do but wait for her life to change. Walking was to become her solace and joy Soon after stepping off a ferry in an Edinburgh port after a seven-day journey up the coast of Britain.

Speaker 1: 50:31

On the 21st of April 1822, sick of sitting around waiting for the inevitable, she headed to the Trossachs, loch Lomond and Loch Catrine made famous in Walter Scott's poem the Lady of the Lake. It was in a journal entry dated 16th of May 1822 when she wrote about the crossing to Luss where she was overwhelmed by a sudden storm. She managed to get to her accommodation by 10pm and despite the scare, the walk had clearly made a mark. She wrote that, despite events, she was quite enraptured with my walk and the great variety of uncommonly beautiful scenery I had passed through in the course of the day. Over that week she'd walk 170 miles through the Highlands. A week later, after dealing with solicitors and stressful legal proceedings, she embarked on her second tour, this time through Perthshire and the Highlands, walking up to 30 miles a day, revelling in the landscapes and the people she met, covering 112 miles in five days. Documenting it all.

Speaker 1: 51:37

Although never intended to be published, she wrote about her wanderings in the self-titled Journal of my Trip to Scotland, recording routes and distances but also her impressions of the landscapes around her as well as personal thoughts. It provides a fascinating insight into a woman born into a military family and married into Victorian literati, going through what would have then been seen as a hugely devastating, monumental change in her life. A month later she travelled to Dublin and Belfast again walking prodigiously, before returning to Edinburgh at the end of her 40-day residency and finalised the divorce and journeyed back to London now as Miss Stoddart, although nearly forgotten in the annals of history, she paved the way for the acceptability of women walking in the countryside. In the countryside, the writing, walking and wandering as lonely as a cloud type stuff was overwhelmingly the preserve of men. Think William Wordsworth and Edward Thomas. Sarah Stoddart subtly began to change this. She resolutely did her own thing. Her legacy should be seen alongside that of Dorothy Wordsworth and Catherine Mansfield, virginia Woolf and Rebecca Solnit and, of course, raynor Winn. Her journal was published on its own for the first time in 1959, but has never been reprinted. I really hope that changes.

Speaker 1: 52:55

A contemporary photo of Sarah Stoddart, perhaps in her 40s, shows her as an archetypal Victorian woman. She has a round face with mesmerising eyes On her head, a black bonnet tied in a bow under her chin. She looked part of the Victorian establishment, but she was a woman who, under the most difficult of circumstances, found the joy of long-distance walking and its healing powers. Sadly, little is known about Miss Stoddart. After her divorce she went to France for a summer, she wrote a death notice for the Times when William Hazlitt died in 1830 and then she died in 1843 in Pimlico. The whereabouts of her grave is unknown and that's why, in the absence of a physical reminder of her inspiring presence and through a kinship with her situation on a personal level, she is this month's Wander Woman of the Month.

Speaker 1: 53:49

That was my ever-inspiring Wander Woman of the Month, the traveller whose name is lost in the history books purely because of her gender. I wish I could get hold of her journal and will try, but do let me know if you manage it by contacting me and the podcast. In the next episode of the Wander Woman podcast I stay in England again, but this this time in keeping with a wandering theme. I head north to mark the 60 year anniversary of Britain's first national trail, the Pennine Way. Along with my friend and fellow adventurer Cerys Matthews, I catch up with Nigeria-born adventurer Pulumi Nubi, who was the first woman to drive solo from London to Lagos in a tiny and purple Peugeot 107. I'll be showing my pick of 10 of the best road trips around the world.

Speaker 1: 54:32

Meet BBC producer Becky Henderson, who's worked on Expedition series alongside Hollywood actor Will Smith, deadly 60s Steve Backshall and many more, and, as always, I'll be revealing my kick-ass Wander Woman of the month. See you next time, Wander Woman out. The Wander Woman podcast is written and produced by me, Phoebe Smith. The editor and writer of additional material is Daniel Nielson. The logo was designed by John Summerton. A final thanks to all the people I met on my journey and were willing to talk to me. It's because of you that this podcast is able to happen at all.