Wander Woman: A Travel Podcast

Are We Over Tourism?

• Phoebe Smith • Season 3 • Episode 7

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With scenes of protest erupting in some of the most visited cities and countries in the world – telling tourists to go home – Wander Woman, Phoebe Smith, shows how merely travelling a little north of the Croatian honeypot of Dubrovnik to explore the region of Zadar the rewards can be great - for travellers and locals.  From discovering the 3,000-year-old Old Town and dancing to the sustainable (and free) Sea Organ, to birdwatching and kayaking in Vrana Lake Nature Park, paddling and eating local on the islands of Ugljan & Pašman and tasting the delights of Pag, there's a whole family-friendly area to enjoy - minus the crowds. Come wander with her…
 
Also coming up:

  • 10 alternative destinations to the overtouristed locations (including scintillating swaps for Barcelona, Tuscany, Iceland and more)
  • Travel Hack: How to be a more responsible traveller in the overcrowded locations
  • Meet "Guerrilla Geographer" Daniel Raven-Ellison who is creating a national walking network connecting every single town and city in Britain
  • Pack the kit you need for scorching hot temperatures
  • Meet the 20-year-old female guide in Benin who is breaking gender barriers in West Africa's tourism industry
  • Dervla Murphy - the ultimate responsible traveller - is our Wander Woman of the Month

Contact Wander Woman

www.Phoebe-Smith.com; @PhoebeRSmith

Speaker 1:

On this month's Wander Woman podcast.

Speaker 2:

You have the first impression when you come to the island that nothing can survive here. But we have some good, good products that we offer and we have very nice stories to tell.

Speaker 1:

As the summer holidays hit, I eschew the over-touristed hotspot of Dubrovnik in Croatia in favour of the much less crowded but no less historical region of Zadar to eat, play and hear some of these stories. Along with my four year old Wander Boy, I also meet the man who is creating Britain's largest database of beautiful, Slow Ways to connect villages, towns and cities together by footpaths.

Speaker 3:

When it comes to walking, somehow people think you need to have a GCSE in geography or a Duke of Edinburgh award to find your way around, which is just ridiculous.

Speaker 1:

And I meet Shanate, thanks to my translator Yao, one of the first female tour guides in the ancient town of Dassa in West Africa's Benin, who, at the age of 20, is already inspiring other girls to consider a previously male-dominated profession.

Speaker 4:

Now that they are in it, people are coming to them asking what they can do to get involved in the tourism field.

Speaker 1:

Also coming up how to be a more considerate traveller when visiting an over-touristed destination. In this month's Travel Hack, 10 of the best alternatives to the world's most visited places. And in my regular gear section, I help you pack for very hot and sunny weather. Finally, I'll be revealing this episode's Wander Woman of the month, the traveller whose name is lost in the history books. You're listening to the Wander Woman podcast and audio travel magazine with me, adventurer Phoebe Smith, exploring off the beaten track destinations, wild spaces, wildlife encounters and the unsung heroes behind conservation efforts. Come wander with me.

Speaker 6:

So we are at the Sea Organ installation, which is the most known modern installation, even in Croatia and in the world. Why? Because it works in an interesting way. We have 35 pipes of different length. Every pipe has a whistle with seven accords and five tones, similar to the organs. The sea enters inside of the pipes, pushes the air and the stronger the waves, the louder the sound.

Speaker 1:

You're joining me in Croatia, but not in an area you might be expecting.

Speaker 1:

Even if you only know little about this Balkan country in southeastern Europe, stretching along the Adriatic Sea opposite the long boot of Italy, you will undoubtedly have heard of its most famous city, dubrovnik, famed by TV series Game of Thrones. It is the real walled city that played King's Landing and has since been besieged by tourists, from film buffs to cruise ship passengers, resulting in some very chaotic scenes and problems for locals. Keen to take my son to experience the delights of the country, but not the crowds, I decided to look a bit further north, to a region called Zadar. I began here in the capital of the same name, where there is also a 3,000-year-old walled city with Roman ruins, medieval and Renaissance architecture perfect to discover on foot. We wandered around it all, climbed the bell tower for views of the entire city, ate a lot of gelato and ended by the water to experience the utterly inspiring and completely free Sea Organ, which you heard my guide Vlatka explain all about. And if you're thinking, how much fun can this really be for a four-year-old listen up.

Speaker 6:

This is the famous work of the architect Nikola Pasic. It was his design, it was his idea, but it was also a collaboration and a work of several experts, such as musicians, acoustic experts, engineers and yes, you can hear me laughing. So, not only children, adults, everyone loves hearing this installation. It's like a concert which the sea creates and I would say that this installation is an amazing collaboration of a human idea and, of course, the nature.

Speaker 1:

And you were saying he did it here because no one came here.

Speaker 6:

Oh, I remember as a child, because my high school was pretty close to this area, not many people walked around this part. Everyone walked over there, where you can see the pier, and that's why he thought what to do to bring people, how to stop people to listen to the music, and that's how he got this amazing idea. It's really fascinating and unique in the world.

Speaker 1:

I love everything about this modern installation the way the artist sought to regenerate an area no one went to and make it properly family-friendly, and how it's nature that composes the tune, the fact that it's completely off-grid and utterly sustainable, and, of course, the price it costs nothing at all. Continuing on the theme of nature, stealing the show when it came to entertainment, the following day we picked up a hire car and drove the 50-minute journey to Vrana Lake Nature Park in the southeastern corner of the region for more outdoor escapades, where the ranger explained a little about the area.

Speaker 7:

So Vrana Lake is really specific. It's the largest lake in Croatia and, as you can see, it stretches along the coast in the same direction as the sea. It is protected as a nature park because of its biodiversity and also importance for wildlife, and we have this northern part, we are here. Right, ok, we have this northern part we are here, right, okay, in this viewpoint, we have this northern part of the lake which is protected as ornithological reserve reserve for birds. Yeah, it's because it's a marsh.

Speaker 7:

Basically it's a marsh and marshes are endangered habitats in Croatia, also in europe

Speaker 1:

Where we started on the limestone cliffs above the lake, there were two trails to follow to enjoy the views down over the entire length of the water, so we headed out on the limestone cliffs above the lake. There were two trails to follow to enjoy the views down over the entire length of the water, so we headed out on the longest one, following waymarkers, through the macchia vegetation where hardy evergreens similar to those found in the savannahs have adapted to survive the extreme conditions up here, with dry climate and lack of soil and water. We spotted juniper sage and immortal as we went and finally reached the lookout over Vrana and out to sea, when my son had a very important question

Wander Boy:

Mummy where's our hotel?

Speaker 1:

Luckily, he was just curious about the geography of the place and not asking to go back. When we returned and sampled an ice cream, the ranger advised where we could go next.

Speaker 7:

It's really nice and there is no, not so many people. Yeah, um, so here, when we look, I will tell you what we can see. Yeah, um, as you can see. So this first water, greenish one, is the lake. Yeah, uh, usually people sometimes get confused, and this, um, middle uh reef, yeah, divides the lake from the sea, so this blue water is Adriatic Sea. On the left side of the lake you have this half peninsula and behind it is a canal, prosica. There is a thin line that connects the sea and the lake. So there you will be doing kayaking in this little bay.

Speaker 1:

We headed down from this promontory we were on called , which translates as Stone Hill, to arrive at Prusik, where we picked up a kayak and took to the water. Look, can you see the dragonfly? It's just flown away. Keep looking. We've already seen cormorants. Speaking of cormorants, it was time for us to check out the last section of the nature reserve Vransko-Gesero Boardwalk, where 600 metres of wooden planks take you across the wetland to hopefully spot some of their key species, as Sandra in the visitor's centre explained when giving us our binoculars.

Speaker 10:

Here are mostly pygmy cormorants and purple herons. Purple heron is on our logo also.

Speaker 1:

And when is the best time to come and see them?

Speaker 10:

Early, early in the morning and late in the evening when the sun is already down. Yeah, it's the best time, when the birds are most active.

Speaker 1:

And what's the most unusual bird you might see here?

Speaker 10:

Glossy ibis for me, yeah, but it's not so rare, but it's an attraction to me. I like to see it very much.

Speaker 1:

We headed out, bins in hand, looking and listening. Finally, we hear something. A cuckoo and my son imparts some very important bird information.

Wander Boy:

Mummy, Peppa has a cuckoo. A cuckoo clock.

Speaker 1:

This is a real one, though. Birded out, we headed back to the hotel and collapsed into bed, dreaming of cuckoo clocks, Peppa Pig and kayak adventures. The next day we would be taken to the water again so we could explore more of Zadar's archipelago and the islands of Uligan and Pasman, where we met a guide, Julia, who immediately summoned a rower who took us over to another tiny islet. I asked Julia where were we?

Speaker 5:

The locals are calling it Školić. It means small island. Here is situated a monastery of Saint Paul the Hermit. The monastery was built in the 15th century and there is also a church, an old Italian cemetery, and they have also a small museum that works during the summer. It's a collection of monasteries, books and items from the printer and the glycolytic scripts. It's a very small collection but it's very nice.

Speaker 1:

After meeting the monks, checking out the church and playing hide-and-seek in the graveyard, my four-year-old made me, I promise, we went back to the main town of Prejko, the name of which literally means opposite, as it's opposite Zadar Old Town. We hiked up to an old medieval fortress of St Michael, which has held a stretch like this since the 6th century and where Benedictine monks used to live. Nowadays it's a great spot for a picnic. After this, me and my son headed via a bridge to the twin island of Pashman, where our guide gave us a rundown of what makes the two places have their own distinct identity.

Speaker 11:

Uligan is very much a fishing island and fisherman islands, and here in the Pasman, and in the past, this was the island of agriculture. We have a rich land and the good giving land, because every products from here, agricultural products, are just high quality products.

Speaker 1:

Speaking of products, she took me next into the family owned and run OPG Mautlic, a company that makes natural cosmetics and food items from local ingredients, as owner Ana explains.

Speaker 9:

Mostly our natural cosmetic is based on olive oil, but there are also like apricot seed oil and almond oil in most, all of them, and the most popular is immortale. It's helichrys flower yeah, because it's good anti-age cosmetic and it's good for dry skin. So this is our best seller in cosmetics produce everything by yourself. We don't have all ingredients here. We need to buy, like apricot seed oil and acid, obviously, yes, yes, but we have our own olive oil and herbs and flowers such as immortale or lavender. We have also lavender balm, yeah, and for food products, everything is grown here. It's figs, balsamic vinegar made of fig, yeah, and then also chili peppers. We have hot chili sauce. And then we have also sea salt, croatian sea salt from Nin, with our herbs.

Speaker 1:

Ana's talk of food had us both salivating at the thought of our final destination, Pag, found to the northwest of Zadar. Now, if you are, or have been, a hedonistic party animal in your day, you will know the place due to its open-air clubs and summer music festivals amid its moonlight landscapes. But its reputation really should be for its produce.

Speaker 12:

Pag, a very long island, 62 kilometres in length, A very narrow island, some one, two, three kilometres wide. The mountains we can see over there.

Speaker 1:

This is Bernard, a local and guide, who is very proud of the settlement of Pag, whose name literally means small village. Due to the geography Bernard described it was the perfect place for salt pans and the Romans back in the day made them here to create a once thriving industry. They're still here now and make salt only in smaller quantities. It's also the place where you can get lamb, and even more well-known and celebrated is Pag cheese. I met Martina Skunka, president of the Pag Cheese Producers Association, for a tour and sampling of her family's Gilgora cheese, which they've been making for centuries. She told me the question and answer most people have when sampling their cheese.

Speaker 2:

What is the secret of this cheese? Why so popular? Because it's really one of the most recognisable Croatian products. I like to say that there is no big secret in production itself. You will see inside. Production of Paschke cheese is very, very simple and it doesn't differentiate much from the production of any other hard or semi-hard cheese, like Manchego, pecorino or so on, because the technology is the same. But the secret of this cheese is because it contains the essence of this island in itself, this rocky environment with a little grass growing on it. But this grass that grows on the island of Pag is very special. It's full of aromatic herbs like lavender, like sage.

Speaker 2:

Always remember how to say apricot, always, no matter many, many aromatic herbs. And and then also salt, which is brought from the Adriatic Sea by this strong wind that blows in the winter. It is called bura, or bora in Italian, and it brings salt to the pastures, and that is what eats our Pag sheep, which I call a super animal because it's very small but very strong, very resistant to this hard island condition, and that is what makes her milk and in that way she is so special. So the secret is in the island of Pag.

Speaker 1:

Both me and my Wander Boy discovered the secret and the wonderful taste of this product at the end of the tour, both the hard cheese and a kind of ricotta that they make from the whey, ensuring nothing is wasted. The final product that this place is famous for is lace. Intricate handmade lace that to this day no machine can replicate. But I loved it for more than that for the fact it represented freedom to the local girls, as Bernard explains.

Speaker 12:

Imagine the 16th century in a small town on an island in the middle of the Adriatic. Chances for little girls in life were equal to zero. They could go to the monastery like, get married and have 10 children and look after them for the whole life. Help the man giving them water and cleaning the salt in the salt pools, help the man in the vineyards and so on. I mean chase chances were. Chances of education were zero. Actually, now, first the Benedictine nuns and then later school, like the picture which saw inside um gave them first of all some reading and learning skill reading and writing skills, some basic geometry skills, some basic mathematical and algebra skills, and then the possibility of making a product that could they sell or exchange for other goods and so on. This actually made those little girls able to provide a better future to their children and for themselves, of course.

Speaker 1:

It's fair to say that Pag far exceeded my expectations, as Martina told me before I left.

Speaker 2:

You have the first impression when you come to the island that nothing can survive here. But we have some good, good products that we offer and we have very nice stories to tell.

Speaker 1:

We ended our Croatian trip that evening back where we began, in the old town of Zadar, at the site of the Sea Organ and its sister sculpture, created by the same artist, Greeting to the Sun. Here, at dusk, solar panels on the floor representing the sun and planets of our solar system begin to light up, turning the whole place into a giant dance floor. With so much nature, so few crowds, a focus on local produce and free, sustainable attractions like these, both me and Wander Boy felt we had much to celebrate. And so we held hands and jumped, pranced and waltzed across the dazzling lights, while behind us the sea played a tune and the sun set on our incredible adventure.

Speaker 1:

That was me and my little Wander Boy enjoying all the delights of Croatia's Zadar region, a place I went to fairly sceptical and left well, actually not wanting to leave at all. Having already been to Dubrovnik and Split in the past, I had not been in a rush to return to the country, but four days in Zadar forced me to broaden my mind, and I'm so glad I did. It truly proved to me that the answer to over-touristed hotspots is not to avoid the country entirely, but the answer to over-touristed hotspots is not to avoid the country entirely, but change where we go and visit.

Speaker 1:

There are some places, though, you can't avoid going. Maybe it's due to a transit, a family member's desire to see it, or being part of a trip that includes it, or maybe there's a feeling you have that you just have to check it out and see it for yourself. But there are things you can do in very popular places to ensure you are not part of the problem. Listen up for my travel hack on how you can be a more considerate traveller.

Speaker 1:

Now I've called my hack how to be a considerate traveller, although how not to be an idiot in over-touristed places would probably work just as well. I'm not here to preach. Most people are genuinely respectful and thoughtful when they travel. Just wait until you hear about this month's Wander Woman of the Month for a masterclass in doing it right. But over the years, I've picked up a few tips that not only make you a more considerate visitor, but also lead to a richer, more meaningful experience for you too.

Speaker 1:

First up, think timing. Those locations are under pressure Venice, Machu Picchu, Reykjavik but can be visited at any time of the year. Go in what tourist boards love to call the shoulder seasons, spring and autumn. It might be quieter and you'll be spreading the income throughout the year and benefit from less crowds too. Look particularly at cruise ship schedules and avoid those dates. You and all the residents will thank you.

Speaker 1:

Linked to this is thinking about the lives of the locals. I've got a friend who reported the horrible scenes in Dubrovnik when tourists were filling up the local buses on the school run, forcing kids to miss their transport. Don't travel when the buses are full of commuters or kids getting to or from school. Respect the rhythm of the place and plan accordingly, and be careful who you take. Photos of the line of children, all dressed the same, looking very cute, may look amazing on your Instagram feed, but these are people going about their lives. Respect their boundaries and it's worth thinking twice when you also photograph doorways, homes and places of work. You don't want them to become engulfed by selfie seekers.

Speaker 1:

I know what some of you are thinking. Yes, many places do rely heavily on tourism for income, so we're grateful, but be mindful where you spend your cash and be generous when you do. Leave a tip. Employ a local guide shop at the corner store. Stay at a family-run guest house over a corporate conglomerate. You may leave a little poorer, but you'll have a richer experience because of it.

Speaker 1:

Also, tap into the local knowledge when on the ground. Ask the locals where they go. I always ask about their favourite bar or restaurant and almost always they're happy to point me in the direction of a neighbourhood gem. And, given the loose theme of this episode of 'Off the Beaten Track', always escape the main drag. Two blocks away from the maelstrom of Kyoto's old town in Japan, for instance, are some of the most fascinating shops and restaurants barely visited by the throngs, just a couple of hundred metres away. And these guys are very grateful for your custom too.

Speaker 1:

Really, like all tourism, it's about leaving a place better than when you found it.

Speaker 1:

Maybe it's being generous picking up a bit of litter, leaving a kind word in a guest book, buying someone a coffee Bring as much joy into the lives of the locals as you get from their home.

Speaker 1:

Happy, less overcrowded travels! That was my Wander Woman travel hack, the advice I give you every episode to make you a thoughtful traveller who always treads lightly. Speaking of treading, my next guest is a man who always likes to go to a place on foot. Daniel Raven Ellison started out as a geography teacher but is now a National Geographic explorer and a self-described guerrilla geographer. He founded and led the campaign to make London the world's first national park city and supported Adelaide in Australia, Chattanooga in the USA and Breda in the Netherlands to become National Park Cities too. He's founder and CEO of Slow Ways, a giant initiative to create a national walking network that connects all of Britain's towns, cities and national parks, and as the Slow Ways Network is preparing for an ambitious change, I caught up with him in the heart of the National Park City of London, naturally to talk about what inspired him, how you become a guerrilla geographer and how we can all get involved in the Slow Ways Network.

Speaker 3:

Guerrilla geography is radical alternative. Surprising geographies that help us think differently about the world.

Speaker 1:

OK, so surprise me with some of your guerrilla geography. What is it that you're up to at the moment?

Speaker 3:

Well, one of my big projects. Actually, we're sitting right now, at the moment, in Temple, right in the middle of London, and a few years ago I started a campaign that led to London becoming a national park city, which is a very large act of guerrilla geography, challenging us to reimagine whole urban landscapes as national parks. So I worked on that for a while and then, during that campaign, I got imagining this idea of slow ways, this idea of creating a national walking network that connected up all our towns and cities, and the inspiration for it really was that people have been walking on these islands for hundreds of thousands of years. For some reason, it's really easy to navigate these lands by car or by train, and yet, when it comes to walking, somehow people think you need to have a GCSE in geography or a Duke of Edinburgh award to find your way around, which is just ridiculous. Yeah, so Slow Ways was really founded. It's just a gift, really, where people could use this big online platform to suggest good, easy ways to walk between neighbouring towns and cities.

Speaker 1:

I love the idea because when myself and Dwayne walked the length of mainland Britain, we our constant bugbear was how difficult it was to get from one place to another without I love the idea because when myself and Dwayne walked the length of mainland Britain, our constant bugbear was how difficult it was to get from one place to another without walking alongside a road. How have you found the projects mapped out? Has it been quite easy?

Speaker 3:

Well, I mean, it's been a massive challenge. It's been going on for five years now, but our volunteers have created 10,000 routes connecting 2,500 towns and cities. You can walk a four or five star route from Inverness all the way down to Falmouth. Wow, there are tens of thousands of kilometres of verified routes which have been triple-checked by volunteers. So, yeah, you can, and I think you can use the routing on our platform to quickly suggest the best way to go between those places. And clearly, you know things like Google Maps are fantastic for finding your way around towns and cities, but we wouldn't necessarily trust them in the countryside and things like commutes and outdoor active and things are fantastic for algorithms to say maybe a good way to go from one place to another, but it's not quite the same thing as there being someone you can trust saying, yeah, that's a good way to go, especially if you have a particular need or desire that an algorithm can't meet and so the slow is it free to use?

Speaker 1:

Do people have to pay to use it? Tell me a bit about it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's completely free. We've been very fortunate to have funding from the National Tree Community Fund for the last four years, and that has enabled us to sort of grow the platform and grow the movement, and it's just such a beautiful thing, you know, I think, a real inspiration for me as well. As you know, there are many hardened explorers people have explored a lot, like you have, yeah, um who might be able to risk a dodgy path or a bad path and not knowing whether something's going to work out or not. But there are millions of people who won't even set out on a footpath because they don't know they're allowed to, don't know that they can, don't know if it's going to work out or not, and so I think we can do better for all those people, and at one stage in our lives that will actually be all of us as well. So just the fact there's a path on a map isn't good enough. We can do better.

Speaker 1:

I love it and what is the feedback been about the project, about people who've started using it?

Speaker 3:

People love it when they get into it. But you know, slow ways are linear routes that take you from one place to another. Yeah, often they're sort of. On average they're 12 kilometers long and most people in this country quite like going driving somewhere and doing a circular walk, don't they? And coming back to where they started, which is very convenient. But then you know the problem that you and duane had traveling the length of the country, that local knowledge connected up with other local people on how you get from A to B.

Speaker 3:

I think it's both been lost to some people and places, but also it's culturally a bit broken as well. You know, I don't know car. There's lots of people who don't know cars, and so actually station to station walks or bus stop to bus stop is just a fantastic way to explore the landscape. So I think once people start getting their head around the logistics and do one, two or three routes, there's a bit of a gateway moment where people can't stop doing it. And I think part of the thing there is that, you know, you patch together parts of the landscape in your imagination and then you want to connect it up even more and we've got about, I think, 10 volunteers who walked over 3, 000 kilometers of routes. Wow. And so you know, rather than trying to do just John O' Groats - Lands End, in one go. They're covering similar kind of distances, but you know, every Thursday or Friday, every weekend, they do another 20 kilometres and then slowly, slowly put things together.

Speaker 1:

And can anyone be a volunteer to help grow the Slow Ways Network?

Speaker 3:

Anyone can be a volunteer to get involved. Yeah, I mean you need to be able to read a map so that you can help other people know good ways to go. You need to be able to walk the distances that are ahead of you. The average route, like I said, is about 12 kilometers, but in this city, london, there are hundreds that are under five kilometers. There are about 10 that are over 40, but that's because up in scotland sometimes it's 40 kilometers to the next place and so what's the end goal?

Speaker 1:

Do you hope to have the entire british isles, an Ireland as well? Is it that you're doing?

Speaker 3:

So at the moment it's Britain, and this takes me on to where we are now really. I mean, slow ease is a super ambitious, beautiful project, and that's all the towns and cities, but it's actually just not good enough. We need to meet people far more where they are and create a network that is radically more inclusive. So, Britain and Ireland, but I want to connect up all the hilltops, all the shops, all the nature reserves, all the beaches, all the villages, all the postcodes, not just for walking, but thinking right across the spectrum of mobility, people powered mobility. So people using wheelchairs, push chairs, people biking, adaptive cycling, running, horse riding what's good for them? That could be all of us at different times.

Speaker 3:

And the way we want to do it, which I think is very, very, very exciting, is to give nonprofit and community organizations across the country the ability to create networks like we have for their communities, whether that's a local community or a community of interest or need right to create networks like we have, so that people who trust them know they could follow in their footsteps. And you know, a good example for me might be that I used to be a geography teacher If I could have set for my local families and children. Five kilometre walks, two kilometre walks they could do to connect with nature and learn about geography in the local area. I'd have loved to have done that, and I know people who use adaptive cycles. They know where all the accessible routes are, but they don't know where all the places are. They could get to as long as they've got the right kit and the right strength. So I think if we had thousands of community organisations sharing good ways to go for their local communities, we can then weave them all together to create national networks.

Speaker 3:

For example, anyone visiting a new place and say well, where's a local, family-friendly nature walk, I can go there there visiting a new place and say well, where's a local family-friendly nature walk, I can go there, there's some created by teachers or a disability group or a group that loves owls.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, you know where's the best owl walks. If you've got a gummy knee.

Speaker 1:

It sounds a little bit like you're devolving it. But then to reconnect it all together, do you think it's - do you think it's going to be easier to get it done quicker? Is that the reason?

Speaker 3:

it's a fascinating point. Yeah, I think there will be thousands more people who can contribute now who didn't before. Yeah, because of the length and size of the slowways network, so in some ways be quicker. But some people might think we're overstating this, but actually I think if you just think about a path going from any village and you imagine a sign in the middle of that village with all the different community groups that are there, there might be a u3a group, a wildlife group, nursery school, all of who might use that same path but for different reasons. So I think an exciting thing we might be able to do in the future with this tech right is say, okay, so we, we can give you the route that's best for that particular intersection you're interested in right of like, your need.

Speaker 3:

But if you were, for example, a family interested in hours with a child and someone was using a wheelchair and a push chair, if all those other groups have told us that that path is good for those people, we can then say okay, so it's good for a group with all those interests, so super ambitious but, like, completely possible if enough people join in, and that's one of the things I think it's really compelling about it and is that going to be the biggest challenge getting people to join in. Definitely, and we've got an enormous ridiculous crowdfunding campaign to pull this off, and part of it is about raising the funds that's needed.

Speaker 1:

That was passionate walker and 'guerrilla geographer', Daniel Raven Ellison, a man who is the brains behind making London being recognised as a national park city and, of course, forming the Slow Ways Network. If you've been inspired and want to help, then do reach out to them at slowways. org. Now, this episode is focused on how you can be a more responsible traveller, especially in times where places are experiencing over-tourism. But by far the best way, as we heard in Croatia, is to avoid the hotspots altogether. The rewards can be great, but where to go? Well, that's where my top 10 comes in, as I offer up the alternative destinations to the world's most over-touristed hotspots.

Speaker 1:

In at 10, it's the one in the news, barcelona, and its alternative is Girona. If Las Ramblas leaves you rattled, then head northeast to the tune of 99 kilometers or 62 miles to Girona, where a gothic maze of old paths and medieval buildings preserved in time awaits. It's a foodie hotspot too. Be sure to sample the , a kind of cream filled, sugary croissant. Yum

Speaker 1:

At nine we're We're avoiding Iceland's golden circle, that's, the crowd circling Gullfloss and Geyser on loop, and instead heading to the Westfjords, on a large peninsula to the northwest of the country, where travel writers would throw around words such as remote, dramatic and isolated. You'll see puffins, empty roads and hot springs that don't use the words blue or . lagoon

Speaker 1:

In at eight is the effortlessly charming region of Umbria, where I just returned from exploring, with Italian specialists, Slo ways, the lesser known neighbour of Tuscany. The medieval towns of Spello and Montefalco are quietly beautiful, with authentic trattorias, and the forested hills lined with olive groves make it the perfect place to sample Italian cuisine with locals rather than tourists.

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At seven, we're skipping over Amsterdam in the summer and heading instead to Haarlem, just 15 minutes away. The pace is slower, the museums are quieter and you'll find a seat at the bar filled with locals, not stag doos. Renting a bike and heading to the sea is a relaxing option too.

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For number six, we're singing the praises of Lyon, france's gastronomic capital, without the Paris price tag. Authentic bouchons, riverside cafes and farmers markets all add up to Lyon being a brilliant alternative to the capital city

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.

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At five, avoid the backpacking crowds of Bali and instead head to Chioggia Sumba, a short flight away. There are Chioggia still the beautiful beaches and fun times, but it feels remote and raw and is excellent for surfing. At four, we have to mention Venice and its quieter counterpart, chioggia, although part of the same lagoon, chioggia is a real working location for fish markets and industry. It doesn't have the same level of beauty, but hey, let's face it nowhere does but it offers a real taste of life on the water. No Bezos wedding in sight.

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At three, we're talking Machu Picchu, or rather avoiding it in favour of the . It's not unknown, but the Inca sites are just as exquisite and you need to undertake a decent trek to get there, keeping the numbers at bay.

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And for number two, it's out of London and to Bristol. Yay, I love this city. Its mixture of hipster restaurants and bars, diversity and still a little bit of grit makes it perhaps my favourite city in Britain.

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And at number one, we're swapping the Swiss Alps for the Julian Alps. A recent visit convinced me of the beauty of the Alps, largely in Slovenia and Triglav National Park. It's just as jagged and dramatic, but so much quieter and cheaper. The Alp Adria Trail traverses the best of it, so lace up your hiking boots and get ready for some quieter trekking.

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Wow, even I am now plotting my next crowdfree escapade after telling you that. list.

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One place I won't be going before I do my gear chat is somewhere super hot, because this month, in the heat we hope of the UK summer, I give you some advice on the best kit for tackling scorching, and I mean Death Valley, proportioned heat. Think the Australian outback, oman's empty quarter or, as I just discovered the other week, central Italy in July. Want to cool down?

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Listen up.

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First off, get yourself a good hat. It wasn't just to look good that Indiana Jones had a trusty wide-brimmed number that he would literally dive under moving rocks to retrieve. Unlike a cap, the protection from this type of hat means

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you don't burn on your neck or your face. Look for one that has some form of ventilation, and if it's impregnated with insect repellent, so much the better. Speaking of your neck, take a buff or neck gaiter. This tube of material will keep you cool, especially if you dunk it in a river or lake or run it under the cold tap on your travels for instant cooling. Another way to take the sun off is an umbrella. Sure, there are fancy parasols you can get, but a bog standard brolly will do to ensure you have a portable shade and escape from the sun wherever you wander.

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In terms of clothing, ladies may want to consider a maxi dress. As we all know, I am a convert to them. Consider technical tops that cover shoulders from burns, have anti-smell tech Season Three sweat Episode away Four from Voodoo body effortlessly. When it comes to fabrics, linen is your friend. It's cool and breathable and looks smart. If needed, go oversized to really help with ventilation For your feet. Dassa If wearing Shanate walking shoes or trainers, be sure to get decent socks with limited seams to prevent rubbing, and I recently discovered the Compede stick that helps stop blisters before they even start Highly recommended. If you prefer an open-air shoe, look for multi-activity sandals, preferably with padding around the straps to stop any hot spots, in short, and shorts are a good option too. There really is no such thing as too hot weather, only ill-advised clothing. So now you know how to be cool in many, many ways.

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where I guide you through some of the toughest kick conundrums Robert Speaking of guiding on my trip to Africa with Explore, listen to season three, episode four, voodoo Child, for more. One thing I noticed overwhelmingly was that all the guides were male. Where are all the women, I asked my male guide. That was until we reached DASA and Shanati introduced herself. Although she hadn't been in the job long. She spoke to me about what drove her to go for a career not usually considered one for girls, and how her presence in the field is already changing people's opinions. When did you become a guide?

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A couple of hours. When did you become a guide? It's been a few months since I started training with Mr Roubaix.

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A couple of months ago.

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A couple of months. D

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Yes, she got trained. She got trained with one of the professional guides here in rare? Sassoumi.

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Traveling around Benin and Antogo, we haven't seen any female guides. Is it quite? Rare.

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She's talking about the man who trained her. She's saying that there are six who got trained by that man. Six girls, six girls, yes, and when people see them, they are amazed because they are accustomed to see like ladies guiding, they are amazed because it's something which is common here.

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Does she think maybe because there aren't many women guides, women didn't think they could become it. So does she think that maybe by her becoming a guide it might inspire more girls to also become guides here in Benin? The first question is from Monty. .

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She said the fact that there are many men in the tourism field that women are not interested in. She can't give any precise answer about that, but she herself she was inspired by that guy, Mr Robert, who trained them when she was a student. When she was seeing that guy guiding, she was very interested in what the man was doing guiding, she was very interested in what the man was doing. After her studies at University she decided to go for that training and become a tour leader and she saw that she would do marvelous in the, the feed and inspire other other ladies.

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Does she think that more women are now considering it as an option for a job?

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Yes, yes, she thinks so.

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And what do her family and friends think about her doing this job?

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Well for my family. They didn't know that she would be interested in the field and now they have started supporting her, pushing her up.

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And do you think the community in general are becoming more accepting that oh, actually, we may see more girls doing this job.

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Yes, during the training, when people were seeing them, they were asking what are you doing? They were eager to know what they can do to also get involved in the tourism field.

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That's really inspiring.

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Yes, she's sure that in the future she'll be a great guide Now that she has started doing this job. They didn't have the opportunity to visit many sites, but whenever she's there and they don't call her for work, she calls the the man who trained them, Mr Robert to ask them when is the next one or what can I do today? And she also every time when she is with him, she listens to master more the histories, the stories that she'll have to tell the tourists who come.

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So she is giving all to be one of the best and be, like him, the one who trained her.

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Well, maybe one day people will say the same about her.

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That was this episode's hidden hero the personal people making real change in their communities. It was a pleasure to meet Shanate, who was just 20 years old and already inspiring others in her community. I really hope that when I go back to West Africa, especially Benin, I will see a great many more women breaking out of traditional gender roles and leading trips. And just like that. It's nearly the end of this episode, so nearly time for me to reveal my utterly inspirational Wander Woman of the Month. I hope you've enjoyed what you've heard. Please do subscribe so you never miss an episode, and please, please, please do leave a review. It means so very much. You can follow me on @phoebeRSmith , find me on blue sky or go to my phoebe-, phoebe smith. com, where you can sign up for my occasional newsletter and, of course, send me a message.

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Now this episode, we're heading to Ireland, where a 10 year old girl is about to make a discovery that will change the axis of her entire life.

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The year is 1941. The place? A hill near Lismore, a town in the historic county Waterford in the Republic of Ireland. Cycling up the hill is a 10-year-old girl who, for her birthday, has just been given a second-hand bicycle by her mother and an atlas. She looks down at her legs pumping the pedals and thinks if I went on doing this for long enough, I could get to India. Her name is Dervla Dervla Murphy, and that thought, that realisation she had atop of that small hill, changed the entire course of her life.

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These gifts may have set her on an adventurous path, but it was her upbringing that shaped her worldview. Born here in Lismore in 1931, her father, Fergus, a highly educated man, had been interned for three years in Wormwood Scrubs for his involvement in the Irish Republican movement, and her mother was crippled by arthritis and reliant on Dervla's care.

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Dervla's first trip away from Ireland came 10 years later, at the age of 20, when she took her bike and cycled through England and Wales writing a series of articles for Hibernia magazine. When she could manage breaks away from nursing her mother, she took sporadic trips to Europe, fuelling her wanderlust further. Then, when her mother died in 1962, with nothing stopping her, she set off on the first of her many two-wheeled adventures, armed with her bicycle, her Atlas, £64, and, thanks to the County Waterford Gardie, a .25 pistol and a quick lesson in how to use it.

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She set her compass for India by bike, along the way she fended off wolves in what was then Yugoslavia and thwarted thieves in Iran. This was all chronicled in her iconic debut Full Tilt Island to India with a Bicycle, despite breaking three ribs after a blow from a rifle butt in Afghanistan. The book is imbued not with bravado but with sympathy, curiosity and deep respect for the people she met along the way. Some called it one of the greatest travel books ever written, and by others as the best cycling book of all time. Either way, full Tilt Island to India with a Bicycle launched a remarkable 26-book career.

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Dervla ventured to corners of the world rarely visited by Westerners in the 1960s and 70s. She followed the AIDS pandemic through Kenya and Zimbabwe for the Ukimwe Road, travelled through post-genocide Rwanda, wrote from the heart of the Balkans in Through the Embers of Chaos and, between 2011 and 2015, made repeated visits to Israel and Palestine, resulting in three deeply insightful books that today are seemingly prescient. In A Place Apart, she cycled through Northern Ireland at the height of the Troubles. Her later work became increasingly political, but always grounded in the daily lives of ordinary people. If I am to be remembered, she wrote. I'd like to be remembered as someone interested in the ordinary people of whatever country I was in, never one Want to embrace Embrace the Heroine De trope. In Wheels Within Wheels, her 1979 memoir, she reflected on how her austere upbringing prepared her for the rigours of solo travel. The hardships and poverty of my youth had been a good apprenticeship for this form of travel. I had been brought up to understand that material possessions and physical comfort should never be confused with success, achievement and security. Though she never married, murphy had a daughter, rachel, with journalist Terence Devere White. Rachel later joined her on journeys through Peru, madagascar and India, beginning when she was just six years

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old. Travelling with a child, murphy observed, often brought unexpected benefits. A child's presence emphasises your trust in the community's goodwill. As someone who also travels with my son, currently four, it's a sentiment that deeply resonates. Dervla Murphy's name does not trip off the tongue, as it should, but her books are still in print and together offer a tome to the world of that time, and it is truly global in its expanse. When she died at the age of 90 back in Lismore, a place she always loved to return to, I hope she recognised the relevancy her books still have. Her stories from Gaza, sub-saharan Africa, russia and Iran remain essential reading, as does her approach to the people she meets, the respect, the core and the love she so clearly demonstrated wherever she went, and that's why Dervla Murphy is our Wander fearless Wonder Woman of the

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Month. That was my Wander ever-inspiring Wonder Woman of the Month, the traveller whose name is lost in the history books purely because of her gender. I hope you enjoyed learning all about her and go seek out some of her books. They are utterly essential reading for any traveller. Seek out some of her books. They are utterly essential reading any traveller for

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any - with traveller. In the next episode of the Wonder Woman podcast, I attempt my first 50 mile challenge walk with the Long Distance Walkers Association, a volunteer member organisation I am proud to be the president of. Will I make it to the finish within the 22 hour time limit? Can I manage to wonder all through the night? Will me and my friend Ellie from season 3, episode 3, between a Rock and a Hard Place, still be friends by the time we finish? There's only one way to find out. Also, I'll be chatting to TV presenter and wildlife buff Mike Dilger to learn why he says he has bird Tourette's Meeting a man on a mission to revitalise an Italian town ravaged by earthquakes and dwindling youth, and I'll be picking my top 10 short walks. I'll need one after my challenge, with big views around the world and, as always, I'll be revealing my inspirational Wonder Woman of the month. See you next time

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, Wander Woman John

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out. The Wonder Woman podcast is written and produced by me, phoebe Smith. The editor and writer of additional material is Daniel Nielsen. The logo was designed by Johnerton. A final thanks to all the people I met on my journey and were willing to talk to me. It's because of you that this podcast is able to happen at all.