Wander Woman: A Travel Podcast

Passage to India

• Phoebe Smith • Season 4 • Episode 2

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What if we stopped saving our dream journey for “one day” and booked it now? Wander Woman Phoebe Smith hits pause on the grind and takes a micro‑retirement across North India by rail—soaking in Kolkata’s dawn ferry music, the riot of colour at the flower market, and the earthy taste of chai, before tracing slower paths to Bodh Gaya, Varanasi and Agra. The result is an immersion into India that her late mother always wanted but whose death age 50 meant she never got to experience.  

Also coming up:

  • Author and travel writer Shafik Meghji on South America's links with Britain and the perfect trip for first time visitors
  • Travel Hack: Survive your first night on an Indian Sleeper Train
  • Top 10 North Indian dishes you have to try... now!
  • Meet the acid attack survivors at Sheroes Hangout Cafe - who turn tragedy into triumph over coffee every day
  • Gear chat: what to pack for a trip to India in winter and summer
  • Ida Pfeiffer – the midlife pioneer who circled the globe on grit, curiosity, and a shoestring – is our Wander Woman of the Month.

If this journey nudges your own “someday” list, make it sooner. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs a push, and leave a quick review to help more travellers find us. Where would your micro‑retirement take you?

Contact Wander Woman

www.Phoebe-Smith.com; @PhoebeRSmith

Speaker:

On this month's Wander Woman podcast,

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"we always say that the picture never justified the Taj Mahal. You need to be here to see the real beauty of it.

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I start putting off my visit to a later date and finally properly visit India and the Taj Mahal on a train extravaganza to take a micro-retirement, aka bucketlist trip in midlife, said to be the next big trend in travel. I also chat to author Shafik Meghji about his fascination with South America and its unexpected links to British culture.

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One of the most famous British food brands of the uh 20th century, Fray Bentos, is from Uruguay. And actually, it's one of the most unlikely tourist attractions, I would say, that I've ever visited.

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And I meet the women who have been victims of acid attacks in India who refuse to let the perpetrators win by turning trauma into triumph through the Sheroes Hangout Cafes.

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He throws acid and it's so much pain in my face and I'm asking, please help me, somebody help, somebody help.

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Also coming up, how to survive a night train in India and actually enjoy the experience in my monthly travel hack. Discover 10 must-try northern Indian dishes that will transport you to the region, even from your own kitchen. And in my regular gear section, I help you navigate packing for the seventh biggest country in the world, whose regions, temperatures, and culture varies a lot. Finally, I'll be revealing this episode's Wander Woman of the Month, the traveller whose name is lost in the history books. You're listening to the Wander Woman Podcast, an audio travel magazine with me, adventurer Phoebe Smith, exploring off the beaten track destinations, wild spaces, wildlife encounters, and the unsung heroes behind conservation efforts. Come Wander with me. I'm on a ferry in Kolkata, the capital of the state, floating on the Hooghly River, itself a branch of the River Ganges, and a man has suddenly started performing for us all. He's wearing a long yellow tunic or kurta over some white linen pants, an orange waistcoat, and has bell-adorned anklets around his feet. He's playing a khamak, a drum fitted with a single string. It's a fitting introduction to the city and for my trip ahead. Some call Kolkata the cultural capital of India, and already on this short commuter ferry to the flower market at dawn, I can see why. It's a place I visited in 2016 at the end of an expedition cruise. I saw it mainly at night in a whirlwind of a tour, and so it seemed fitting to revisit ten years later and actually take my time to explore. I was on what is being called by adventure tour operator Explore a -micro retirement. That is a midlife person deciding to take that bucket list or extended trip now, mid-career, rather than waiting for a retirement that, let's be honest, may never come, seeing how things are looking. For me, that place was always going to be India. I've been on flying visits and connecting flights here too many times, but never really taken the time to see it. So now I was embarking on a slower pace two days in Kolkata before exploring further north by train. After being serenaded, it was time to hit arguably the biggest visual feast here.

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People said that this is the biggest flower market of Asia. Maybe may not be. The total size is 4 square kilometres.

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We were not going to walk the entire 4 kilometres, it would have taken hours, not only because of the size, but because every few metres there was something to look at…

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What you see here is uh beetle nut leaf. Yeah. So a lot of people in India, uh, after meal, we used to eat paan. Paan is like a take uh beaten leaf taken, some limestone uh paste on it, and uh fennel seeds and some uh dry uh rose sweet and you know some mint mint freshness. So after we eat meal, it is said that when you consume the beetle nut leaf uh packet, it releases uh some enzymes which helps you digest and also give you a good breath.

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Between local guide Sikam and Indian guide Neha, I learned about how each colour flower means something different and is attached to various gods in the Hindu tradition. Marigolds for the goddess of learning, asethics and culture, orange for Vishnu, blue or white flowers for Shiva, red hibiscus for the goddess Kali, which is very popular at weddings. After the hustle and bustle of the flower market, it was time to do something very traditional. Go for a cup of chai, which even in itself was a learning experience.

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We'll be serving the chai in a clay pot. These are uh eco-friendly and one-time use only. It's made of clay, baked the way they baked bricks, and once you have a chai in it, it gives a very earthy flavour to the chai. And um it's one time so use, so it gives you flavour, and you you uh drink the tea out of it and just throw it, it's not gonna harm the environment. And it is actually giving a work to a lot of people in the villages and eco-friendly system. The chai is made with uh milk, sugar, ginger, all boiled together, and you would love the taste.

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After tea, we explored more of the city. We jumped into one of the traditional yellow taxi cabs, synonymous with the place, and a disappearing relic as the company who makes them no longer exists. We saw the 'Taj of the Raj', aka the Victorian Monument, built in 1901, which looks like a miniature version of the Taj Mahal. We witnessed a mass in St. Paul's Cathedral, who'd have thought it? and visited the Kali Temple, where offerings are made to the mother of power, destruction, and ruler of time. It felt fitting on a trip all about reclaiming time, or our lack of it. The next day, after visiting the Potter's village, we had food and drink at the Indian Coffee House, a historical hangout and renowned meeting place for intellectuals and students, as well as a formation of political parties dating back to the 1800s. But then it was time for us to take our first train, headed towards Delhi, on what was the first train line in India. We were welcomed in traditional Indian station style.

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My experience with Heathrow Airport, every five minutes there is a plane landing. There is also every five minutes or two minutes, one coming or going by.

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Facts say that one third of the population is at the moment on a train.

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As you can hear, it was noisy, but then 25 million people on trains is never going to be quiet. Yet, my goodness once we got on board, to our assigned bunks, where food was brought to us to enjoy, things got quieter, fairly fast…

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Train Sounds  I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. It wasn’t the baptism of fire I was expecting. I woke up after dozing following my meal to find we'd made it to our next stop, a sedate one, Bodh Gaya, the most sacred Buddhist pilgrim site in the world, as it contains the tree where it said Buddha first attained enlightenment.

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This is the Mecca for Buddhists, and the most holiest thing is the Bodhi tree, not the statue. It was the tree that has transformed Siddhartha into Buddha. That's why here the tree is the most sacred one. When Buddha died, Buddha was against idol worship. And that's why after the death of Buddha, there was no concept of idol worship, temple, and all. Only stupas, I told you this story of a stupa, how the relic was distributed. So stupa, bodhi tree, buddha's feet, uh, you know, carved on the stone. These are the signs and symbols normally Buddhist people use to worship.

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For me, perhaps the best thing about this place was that no phones were allowed inside the complex. It seemed fitting, given that Buddha had a love for all things natural. Inside, I found that without my device, I could just be a little. I would enjoy the sounds of the chanting, smell the leaves from the fig tree and the scent of the flowers left in offering, feel the sun warming my face and feet, for shoes are not allowed inside either. It was a pause on this trip, and at this time in my life, that I needed more than perhaps I even knew. We took it easy the rest of the day and enjoyed a night in the hotel surrounded by peaceful pools of water. Then it was back to the train for a journey to a different kind of Mecca, this time one for Hindus, Varanasi.

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Varanasi is one of the world's oldest continuously inhabited cities and is found on the banks of the sacred river Ganges in Uttar Pradesh. It's long been a pilgrimage site for Hindus, being the place where most opt to have their body taken for open cremation before their remains are scattered back into the mother waterway. Along its banks are 84 bathing spots called Ghats, and we began early morning, straight from the train, taking a boat, complete with a sitar player, my guide Neha explaining what we were looking at as the sun slowly rose above us.

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Every ghat is used for bathing prayers and you know worshipping. Two ghats, Harishandra Ghat and Manikarnika Ghat, is used for cremation only. So the families would bring the dead bodies over. The last bath will be given with the water of the Ganges, and then they will be cremated. There are different platforms according to the class system. So the first class in Hinduism is priest class, Brahmin, then warriors. Kshatriya, the kings, and then merchant, people who are into business, and then the Shudras, the last four class. Brahmins and the warriors will be cremated on the proper platform, where otherwise the merchant and the shudras will be cremated close to the river, on the banks or on the ghats.

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As we sat above the water, watching flames lick the bodies and smoke dissipating the souls that were being released. I couldn't help but think of my own mum, who died at 50 and never got to make it here to India, a country she always longed to visit. Before we made it back to land, Neha had told us a bit more about the river, its importance to Hindus, the rituals undertaken, and why being here at sunrise was so important.

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So they would first come, take five holy dips. And the rising sun plays a very important role in our lives because when we believe in horoscope and when you know we are born under such constellation that when you offer water, and if it's a water of Ganges to rising sun, that means your you know zodiac sign is gonna shine. And when the sun shines on you, it's a good, you know, it's a very positive thing to say, and then you'll have a brighter life and you'll have almost everything positive and you'll have a positive attitude. Like for me, I'm being suggested by a horoscope that you should offer uh water to rising sun to you know clear my uh planets to keep them aligned. So what they will do, they will come, they'll take five dips, then they will offer first uh water to the rising sun, then they will take uh uh uh oil lamps. We call it oil lamps, but it's mostly ghee. For you know, for the tourism purpose, it's a wax. You know, wax and ghee mixed because if they give us liquid, you know, it'll get spoiled, and you know. So uh generally it is a ghee in wick and then some flowers. We will light up the candles and then we will make a wish, and I'll give one to each of you. Make a wish, slowly, you know, just leave it into the Ganges River and see how long it goes because it's downstream, and um and I wish that Mother Ganges actually, you know, all your wishes come true.

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I took my ghee and wax candle inside flower petals and dropped it onto the water. It immediately went out. But I smiled still, as in a way it made sense. My wish to come here for my mum had already come true. We spent the rest of the day visiting several temples, seeing the silk spinners at work, making the sari fabric that this area is so famous for, and eating a lot of delicious street food. There's even a food temple. Then, for the evening, we attended the famous Aarti ceremony.

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What's happening now is they are only singing the chantings of Shiva related to Shiva, but this is not ceremony. Ceremony is about to start. When it starts, they will pray Aarti. Aarti is a dedicated song related to Mother Ganges. So we have all million 33 million god and goddesses. There is one special chanting only dedicated to them. So today they will sing Jai Gange Maya. You will follow the lyrics Jai Gange Maya, which means uh victory for Mother Ganges, and then they will, you know, sing, and uh the priest will come to these platforms, they will you can see those big big fire things, you know, the big light ups. They will first start the ceremony with water, then air, which is with the clothes, then fire. It is more like a representative opera cleansing, also fire cleansing, represent here. Fire opera cleansing, he will also face us. So when they face us, we all will use us like this, so then we take the fire on us, and then the open cleansing is happening. And at the end, a lot of people will do lots of clapping. So when you clap, your blood circulation improves and your body comes together. Lots of conch shell . Because conch shell and the sound of bell bring everything together, it brings you to dance, and this is where you can focus.

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I had to cut it there as the bells, conches, singing, and cheering all became so loud. Performed at many of the Ghats, it truly is a sight to behold, with tens of thousands of people attending with you. It was a real ceremony of light and is said to express devotion, which fitted in nicely with my final destination before I reached Delhi on my flight home, Agra. Home perhaps to the ultimate symbol of devotion, the Taj Mahal, and the one place my mum had longed to see before she died, but never made it. Following another night on the train, I arrived and asked my guide, Zeeshan, why he thought the Taj was such a draw for people coming to India.

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The very first thing, it's the charm and the beauty of it. We always say that the picture never justified the Taj Mahal. You need to be here to see the real beauty of it. And somehow, my perspective, it's a love story behind it. It's the monument of love. The only building, as far as I know, the only building which is dedicated for a wife by a husband. So that is unbelievable. I mean, from where you brought such sort of dedication towards your partner. I mean, just imagine if he didn't build it, who's gonna ask him?

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Yeah, he didn't have to build it.

Speaker 2:

He didn't have to, he don't want to, right? But still, he chose to dedicate it 22 years of his life when you have everything around you. You just come on and things happen for you, right? You have harems full of ladies, you have the world, and you have literally every single thing, whatever you want, just happens, but still no. He choose to dedicate his life towards his dead partner. That is something amazing. And for sure, it's symmetry.

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But it's love, really.

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Of course. The first priority is always love.

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I stood at the Taj, the place I'd grown up looking at, in my mum's many coffee table books, wondering if I'd ever make it there with her. Of course, when she died when I was a teenager, I knew that never could happen. I'd also written it off myself, pushed it back for another day, another time. Before this micro-retirement, part of me wondered if I'd also leave this life not knowing what it was really like to stand beneath the domes of this famous building, to take it in beyond a photograph. And yet now I'm here, and I understand why it's so important to allow ourselves time. For now I am experiencing the things I never knew to be true of the real place beyond the glossy pictures, the macaque monkeys who climb all over the buildings, the sound of the parakeets who constantly fly overhead, the musty smell of the river Yamuna that runs behind it, the carnelian gemstones inside the Taj itself that glow like fire under torchlight, and feeling with my fingertips just how the external marble tiles reflect heat so intensely that it's like walking alongside a storage heater. As the sun begins to set on my great adventure, I mutter the words to my mum, "we did it", and feel the true love of the Taj Mahal and India itself.

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That was me in India, immersing myself into the local way of getting about, with train travel and a guide across the north. Thanks to Explore, who allowed me to finally visit the Taj Mahal in memory of my late mother and on what would have been her 75th birthday. It was a truly special moment, made even more so by arriving there by sleeper train. Speaking of which, there has been a real resurgence in overnight train travel. It's slow travel, intelligent travel, it's, let's be honest, the romantic way to journey through towns and countryside, mountains and paddy fields, waking up in another state, another city, watching the busy streets in full flow, all from the window of a speeding train. It is for me the best way to travel, but and let's be honest, unless you've splashed out on the Maharaja Express, (note, I had not), it's not quite as romantic as you have in your head. Adventurous, yes. Romantic? Not so much. It's a bit noisy, very bright, hard to sleep in, and during the daytime you can pretty much kiss the idea of personal space goodbye. But to mitigate the challenging bits and make the most of the bits that make it an incredible way to see India, here's how to survive your first night on an Indian sleeper train. First up, as mentioned, leave your preconceived ideas of personal space on the platform. On my train to Varanasi in the late afternoon, a random guy decided to sit at the end of my bunk whilst I was lying on it listening to a podcast and spent half an hour on his phone while simultaneously farting. A bad combo. It may happen to you, but live with it. It's not a personal attack, just the reality of train travel here. And so we can get the scatological hacks out of the way early. Remember to take Loo roll and hand sanitizer with you and have to hand too. The trains usually start fully stocked, but they can and do run out as the journey goes on.

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Life really happens on the train. You don't need a screen. The entertainment is all around you, and you are part of it. But as it gets later, you're also going to at some point want to shut out the noise and sights as much as you can and try and get some shut eye. The cabins are loud and bright. Lights can be turned off, but people don't always do it. And with everyone now watching TV on their devices, often without headphones, that does not make for a restful night. Earplugs and an eye mask will become your favourite travel accessory. A safety pin is also useful for keeping the privacy bed curtains closed, as they often have gaps. And remember to put the bag of your valuables in the bunk with you. Everything else can go under the seat. It will be perfectly fine.

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It can also get cold, especially when the AC is cranked up and you are unlucky enough to have the bunk right beneath it. Take some layers that are easily accessible into your hand luggage. That'll help you sleep better too. And wear shoes like sliders that you can easily slip on and off for when you need to hop in and out of the bunk.

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One thing you will never forget again in a hurry if you make the mistake the first time is to ensure that you get into the right coach. A quirk of many Indian trains is that you can't always cut through cabins when you're not at a station. And you don't want to be stuck in the wrong place without a bunk. Ask someone on the platform or download the Where is my train app, which will tell you this before it arrives. And when it does, make sure you get on it quickly. These trains won't wait for passengers. It literally is a bun fight. Get there early, find your bunk quickly, and settle in for the long haul.

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Grab some snacks before you head to the station, too. You can pre-order at seat service on the IRCTC ecatering food on track app, and generally it is delicious. But if, like me, you want to eat on your time but not theirs, snacks are a wise idea.

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Above all, when doing India by train, the biggest hack I can give you is a patience. There could be delays, there could be sights, sounds, and smells that are unwarranted, but there will be many, many more things that will make it a long journey in India one of your most memorable trips ever. And remember when things go wrong, they always make the best stories. That was my Wonder Woman travel hack, the advice I offer every month to make sure your next trip leaves you with a good taste in your mouth. Speaking of taste, my next guest is author and travel writer Shafik Meghji, who has a particular love of anything South America. His last book, Crossed Off the Map, which was shortlisted for the Stanford's Travel Book of the Year in 2023, saw him take a deep dive into Bolivia and how far-reaching its influence was in the wider world. His new book, Small Earthquakes, similarly considers how South America as a whole was key to some of the most British institutions, including a pie maker. I caught up with him to ask what it is about South America that inspires him the most and how we should make the most of our visit to this huge and enchanting continent.

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So many travel books by British writers about South America start with a shipwrecked uncle or some long-lost family heirloom that's passed down. I didn't have any of that, don't have any connections with South America from a family point of view. I just grew up in South London and I fell in love with it from an early age. It was watching uh David Attenborough wildlife documentaries, Michael Palin travel logs, um, being fascinated by enigmatic South American footballers. And it really developed organically from that. And then, you know, I I didn't take a gap year until after I'd actually started my career as a sports journalist, which is not necessarily the best way to do it. But when I did that, I went off to India and then I went to South America for the best part of six months, and I absolutely loved it. And it really just cemented my interest in the continent, and uh, you know, and kind of from that point on, it's it's kind of developed into especially from from a writing point of view, because I think it's it's a place that's still underwritten about from an English language point of view, um, which is great from an author because there's lots of great stories to explore.

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Well, and you said about that first trip then when you took a kind of grown-up gap year. Where did you go to first? Where was your first landing point in the continent? And and what sort of impact did it have? Was it everything you expected?

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I mean, you could almost predict it because it was a classic gringo trail route. Flew into Rio for the uh for the carnival and had a great time, and then you know, toured around um Brazil for a bit, and then went overland through Bolivia. Bolivia at that point I didn't know much about, and then very much fell in love with, which kind of kind of inspired uh my first book crossed off the map. And then I went to Peru, and then I did the you know the Inca Trail and uh went across the Atacama Desert, and then I went to Buenos Aires and then you know down to down to Patagonia. So very much you know a well-trodden route. Um, but it blew my mind. I mean it was it was no matter how many times you've seen you know pictures of the Iguasu Falls or you know, of you know, uh video of the the the ice fields in Patagonia, nothing actually prepares you for um for being there. And Buenos Aires was somewhere that really resonated with me. As I said, I'm a I'm a Londoner, um, I like cities, and I'd never been there before, but it despite that, I'm immediately felt at home there. So it was kind of it really, it just you know, it just it just reached out and grabbed me. And I also started to learn about all these little interesting fragments of history that I just hadn't been taught about in school and thought, wow, I'd like to I'd like to learn more.

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And some people are put off going to um South America for the first time because they don't speak Spanish or Portuguese. Did you speak the languages and how did you get on?

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Uh no, I mean I definitely, you know, I mean, I you know, other than the the um the language guides in the back of the Rough Guide and Lonely Planet, I didn't have any Portuguese at all before getting into um to Brazil. And you know, I hadn't I hadn't studied Spanish or anything. I'd done, you know, done, you know, done a few kind of you know C D classes as they were back back back then, you know, the the pre-Duolingo type thing. So so I didn't have it. I mean having speaking the local local language as anywhere definitely helps. But if you don't, um please don't be put off going, you know, particularly in the more popular um tourist destinations, English is widely spoken in the big cities, places like Buenos Aires, you know, and it well, Argentina generally, Chile as well, it's very widely spoken. It's also a great place to learn the language, you know, particularly in the Andean countries, Bolivia, um, Peru, Ecuador, Ecuador in particular. Really clear um Spanish, quite uh, you know, what is spoken quite slowly, so it's a really good place to pick up the language. So it's definitely an asset, but but you don't need it. You'll pick it up on the route, which is probably the best place to learn.

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Then moving on to your next book, which has come out this year, Small Earthquakes. So this is about the lost British history in South America. So tell me what inspired this book.

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Yeah, I mean, this was again, it it was you know, when I'm living when I was living in Argentina and I was travelling through the continent, particularly for guidebooks, but also to write travel features. Um, and everywhere I uh everywhere I went, no matter how remote, I kept stumbling across these fragments of British history or these odd connections to home that I hadn't heard about before and that I, you know, uh I thought, well, I've never been taught about. You don't see it represented in popular culture. That's that's a quirky story. And then over the years it just accumulated and accumulated. To give you an example, when I was living near where my um apartment was in in Buenos Aires, there were streets named Thames and Fitzroy and Darwin. You know, on my local newsstand there was an English language newspaper, the Buenos Aires Herald. When I walked down the equivalent of Oxford Street in Buenos Aires, there's a Howard store, which is kind of it was always shuttered in all of my experiences, it's always been shuttered and broken windows and uh, you know, inhabited by pigeons and so on. And all of these kind of things just kind of you know, just kind of kept nagging away at me. And then, you know, went to Easter Island, found stories there, went to Tier del Fuego, found stories there, the Amazon, the sword flat. There were all these great stories, and actually, kind of as I back began to read into it and dig into it a little bit more, I found actually there's this shared history between Britain and South America that dates back 500 years that had a profound impact on both all of these countries in South America as well as you know us here in the UK. And even more weirdly, I've I kept finding connections to me in South London as well. Just kind of odd, odd, odd little things from the you know, from the library that I often do writing in to um you know a nearby park, to uh, you know, to the Easter Island statue in the British Museum that captivated me as a child when my parents took me to see it. So all of those I thought, well, this is you know, this is this is a really interesting and I would say important history that parts of it are well known in in South America, but it just generally isn't known at all here. So my uh my book is uh as a small attempt to try and rectify that.

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And it's very um it's very prescient, I think, with obviously all the discussions about giving back things like the Easter Island Moai back to the countries that they're from, and uh us no longer as Britain being the keepers of someone else's culture. Um can you give me any examples of some of these kind of forgotten links? Perhaps is there one that really surprised you or really sort of captivated you?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean the the the the Easter Island statue is you know was one of my favourites early on, and that's obviously a slight, you know, a you know a well-known story and something that happened across the you know um uh across the 19th and 20th century. One of my favourite stories actually is in Uruguay, you know, a country within South America that's often overlooked. Um, but I used to visit when I was living in Buenos Aires every three months or so because my tourist visa was running out. So I'd just get the uh the ferry across the river plate to Cologne or to Montevideo. Um and I I was I found myself really interested in in um kind of the history of of Uruguay, a tiny country in South American terms. And also, you know, one of the key links, one of the most famous British food brands of the uh 20th century, Fray Bentos, is from Uruguay. And actually, it's one of the most unlikely tourist attractions, I would say, that I've ever visited, which is an old meatpacking plant, vast, vast complex of Victorian era architecture on the on the banks of a banks of a river in the town or on the edge of the town of Frei Bentos. And this was a place that essentially moved food production into the industrial age. It changed the way you know the world eats, and it gave birth to some of the most famous British food brands of the 20th century, Oxo Cubes, to give you to give you one example. And it also transformed the Uruguayan economy. And so now you can go and you can walk around the you know, it's a UNESCO World Heritage Site, again, improbably. You can walk around, you know, these, you know, these this incredible architectural treasure trove. And also there's a you know, there's a uh Barrio Inglis, an English neighborhood just outside where the um where the uh the management uh British often British management used used to live. And it's kind of you know, it's like walking through, you know, like the English countryside. It's cottages with rose gardens and there's a golf club and tennis courts and a social club and all of those kind of things.

Speaker 6:

Wow.

Speaker 1:

And I really like that story because it's it's kind of it ticks lots of the things that I'm interested in, it's which is strained and you know overlook overlooked history, something kind of you know that had a profound global impact that is overlooked today, and just you know, a weird and wonderful tourist attraction that you know doesn't get doesn't get too many, too many tourists, but but the tourists that go are very enthusiastic about it.

Speaker:

With all your experience of having lived out there, written guidebooks out there, you know, looked into the history and everything. If anyone's listening to this who's a first-time visitor, they haven't been to South America before, and they're like, okay, I've been convinced I want to go see. Where would you recommend? What would you recommend they did?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, the the the first thing is don't try and do too much. I mean, it sounds ridiculous. South America's and all of the South American countries are a lot bigger than than you think, and a lot bigger than they they are represented on most most maps. So less is less less is more. I mean, I would say if you if if you if you've let's say if you've got a two-week, if you've got a two-week trip, yeah, I would say you either pick if you're really keen to go to the Amazon, if you're if the Amazon and the Andes are your are your key and ancient sites, then I would say go to Bolivia and Peru. You can you can visit Park National Medidi in Bolivia, the most biodiverse protected area on earth, to get a taste of the Amazon. You can go to the Salado Uni, the world's biggest salt flat, the size of Jamaica, incredible place. And you can also obviously cross over the border, across Lake Titicaca, into Peru, and you know, Peru is obviously filled with with with uh you know Inca sites, including obviously famously Machu Picchu. If you want to kind of get um, you know, if you want to see Patagonia and the Lake District regions, which are in both both um Chile and and and um Argentina, and if you really want to experience big city, you know, South American life, I'd say go fly into South, fly into Buenos Aires, spend some time there. You can go up to the Iguasu Falls if you want, and then you can and then you can head south. And in Patagonia, it's relatively easy to hop over the the border into Chile. I mean, lots of Chilean Patagonia is incredibly dramatic, and and and explore that. So go to Peninsula Valdez, which is fantastic for whale watching, it's also nearby home to a small Welsh community or Welsh-speaking community, um, and then uh Park National Los Glaciares, in you know, which is uh protects part of the the um the biggest ice field in the southern hemisphere outside of Antarctica itself. It's the Moreno Glacier, it's great for hiking, it's great for climbing, if that's your thing. Uh, you can hop over the border into Chile and go to Torres del Pione. You can go to Puma Um tracking, you know, you can stay on these estancias and ride with gauchos. So that's that that that's what I would that's what I'd recommend. But but less is more, particularly on your first trip.

Speaker:

Wow, Shaf. You take me back to my memories of uh Chile and Patagonia, it's probably one of the highlights of the the Puma tracking, the the mountain walking, everything. It was uh it's wonderful. Um and so I'm gonna ask you the final question, which is something I ask all my guests on the podcast, which is what's the one piece of travel gear that you never go anywhere without?

Speaker 1:

Uh this this is uh I like I like the question. Honestly, earplugs. That would be you know, it's it's not you know not a not a fancy piece of kit, but good quality earplugs that allow me to sleep on long haul flights or in you know noisy, uh, you know, in noisy guest houses, or on, you know, long distance coaches or train trips, which if you're traveling in South America for a long time, you have a lot of. Absolutely that. Um, yeah. It's worth spending worth spending the money on it.

Speaker:

Simple but effective. And you'll need a good night's sleep so you have a good adventure the next day, right? Absolutely. That was author and travel writer Shafik Maghji. Do check out his latest book, Small Earthquakes, now available from all good bookshops. Chatting to him about South America makes me long to return. But for now, I may just have to content myself with a Fray Bentos pie. Speaking of food though, northern India, as you heard earlier in the programme, is delicious. Across Punjab, Delhi and Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Kashmir and Himanshal Pradesh, and beyond are some of India's most delicious foods. This is the country of slow-cooked lentils and roadside snacks that will thrill your taste buds. So if you're headed into India's northern states of the above and the Vinjo range, these are the foods to lift your nose into the air and cartoon-like, follow the aromas until you reach the source.

Speaker:

At 10, it's time to chaat. This isn't one dish, but a category, a delicious melange of tangy spicy street snacks thought to have originated in Uttar Pradesh and perfected in old Delhi. You'll typically find fried dough or potatoes alongside yogurts, tamarind chutney, and spice blends. Best eaten standing up, elbow to elbow, with friendly strangers.

Speaker:

At nine it's Pani Puri, or in Delhi and much of North India, it's often called Golgappa. Remember the names. These hollow crispy shells, on their own, or filled with chickpeas or potatoes, dunked in tamarind water and eaten in one go, became one of my favourites fast. As soon as the cook assembles it, eat it up. Delay is not an option. At eight, we're revelling in dahl makhini, a slow-cooked dish of black lentils, urad, and simmered in butter and cream. If you've eaten at Dishoom, you'll recognise it as their signature dish. And no wonder, this Punjab dish is delectable. It's usually eaten at dinner, preferably scooped up with a naan.

Speaker:

At seven, it's butter chicken. No, really. This dish was actually created in Delhi in the mid-20th century as a way to use leftover tandoori chicken. The chicken is simmered in tomato, butter, and spice and is now popular around the world.

Speaker:

At six, it's aloo paratha, a flatbread stuffed with spiced mashed potato, cooked with ghee, served with yogurt and pickle, often topped with a scandalous knob of butter. If you can get it cooked by someone's grandmother, you've won a travel.

Speaker:

At five, try out Chole Bhature, a chickpea curry with deep fried bread that has expanded into a satisfying balloon shape. It's a deli breakfast classic and a street staple.

Speaker:

At four, we're headed to Rajasthan for the fiery red mutton curry called Laal Maas. It's closely linked to Rajput hunting culture and hunting feasts, and you'll find it if you've arrived for a festive meal. It'll knock your socks off.

Speaker:

At three, you'll know Rogan Josh, an aromatic lamb curry from Kashmir. It's traditionally served at weddings and special occasions. It blends Persian influences and reflects the influences from Central Asia too.

Speaker:

At two, it's a Punjabi staple of Rajma Chawal. This is red kidney bean curry cooked in a thick spiced tomato onion gravy served with steam rice. It's comfort food. And if you think that it looks a bit like Mexican food, that's because it is. The red kidney bean isn't indigenous to India. Isn't food brilliant?

Speaker:

At one is a breakfast beloved in Old Delhi and Uttar Pradesh, Bedmi Puri with Aloo Sabzi. You'll enjoy deep fried puris made with spiced lentil flour served with potato curry. The eating experience is usually communal and always comforting.

Speaker:

Ten dishes, but I could have named another ten. Twenty. And I should have said paneer. Oh, they're all so delicious. Mmm mmm mmm.

Speaker:

That was my top ten, and I'm not sorry to say that right now, after reading that, my entire mouth is watering. In fact, I think I might just do a quick search of flights to work out when I can go back and taste some more of that delicious cuisine. But before I and you do, we will want to listen to this month's gear section. Because India is a big place. The seventh biggest country in the world, in fact. And aside from knowing how to dress sensitively for Hindu temples and Muslim sites, it can be tricky to know what to pack depending on when and where you travel to. Not so after you've heard this, let's get packing...

Speaker:

Back in the day when it came to packing for India, it used to be all about modesty and not offending anyone. And though that's still a thing, for instance, try to cover shoulders, chest and thighs when you're out and about, avoid tight clothing, to be fair, you'll want to given the heat in summer. Go for long pants and dresses over shorts and keep swimwear for the beach or pool only. Things have changed quite a bit, with most big cities being quite metropolitan in their outlook. Plus, clothing is so cheap out there that I am a sucker for taking very little and buying harem pants and saris when I go. But the real challenge comes when thinking about the weather and how to dress for it.

Speaker:

The whole country is on the monsoon cycle, June to October, which means certain times of the year it will rain a lot. But temperatures really do vary depending if you're north or south. So let's think of things in terms of the two, yes, two, seasons, starting with winter.

Speaker:

In the Himalaya, think Darjeeling, Ladakh, it can get cold, and I mean snow and ice cold. Pack layers and lots of them. Thermals, fleece, waterproofs, duvet jackets, hat, gloves, buff. A bit more south though, like Delhi and Kolkata, it still does get cool, especially at night. So linens in the day, but take a few long-sleeve tops and jumpers and a jacket for the evening. If you're going more coastal, Goa for instance, take an umbrella as it can get wet even in the winter after the monsoon. But in general it will still be warm, so take light clothes for the daytime with only probably one jumper for when the sun goes down, which you might not even need.

Speaker:

Moving on to the summer, everywhere will be hot, even in the Himalaya in the daytime. For the higher and northern areas, you will need waterproofs and warm layers, but also cooler clothes too. For the rest of the country, take the usual lightweight clothing options, linen trousers and shirts, maxi dresses, etc. But do check the mosquito situation, as there is the risk of malaria in some places. In those areas, long trousers and shirts will be key at dusk to keep the biters away. And look for ones impregnated with bug shield technology. And pack your deep anti-bite spray. Alternatives obviously available.

Speaker:

For all times of year, a small packable lightweight umbrella is ridiculously handy. Now, go forth, pack and enjoy whatever the weather throws at you. Namaste.

Speaker:

That was my monthly gear chat, the advice I offer every episode to help you enjoy every minute of your life on the road. Seriously, having the right kit can make the biggest difference. Speaking of difference, it's time for this episode's hidden hero, the people or person making a difference in travel in their community. When I was in Agra, I met several such individuals at Sheroes Hangout, a cafe and community in India set up by the Chhanv Foundation and run by survivors of acid attacks, something which used to be really shockingly quite common here. With around 1,000 cases reported every year in the early 2000s, the height of the problem, women were usually the targets, and usually when they were young, I think teenagers or girls in their early 20s after jilting suitors. Laws have since changed, but there's still over a hundred cases reported each year, which left women afraid to show their face in public and lead solitary lives. The cafe, which was set up in 2014 and now has four locations, with a fifth on the way, aims to increase awareness of acid attacks and empower acid attack survivors through access to surgery, rehabilitation and teaching classes to them that focus on basic skills, crafts and English conversation. I went to the original cafe in Agra and met with Dolly, who while she gave me a henna tattoo told me her story, some of it through my guide Neha, who helped with translation.

Speaker 5:

I'm working here the I was joined in um in 2015. 2015. Yes.

Speaker:

And do you mind me asking what happened to you?

Speaker 5:

I was in 2013. I was 13 years old and one boy and he harassed me so many times. I'm complaining harassed my mother and he after two days. And he came to my house and after uh thrown acid in my face and he gone. And uh after um my mom not at home, my mom working another place. When it happened yes and only m me and my brother and my sister sibling uh playing carambod. So my face uh he threw an acid too much pain is in my face and uh I'm asking please help me somebody help somebody help but uh then uh one lady is a my neighbor and she came to my house and uh clean the cold water and cleaning my face yeah and uh that's uh cleaning my face and after uh some hospital and uh.

Speaker:

Wow and you were 13 years old yes and you knew the boy?

Speaker 5:

He was and he was 35 years old

Speaker:

oh my god he wasn't a boy he was a man

Speaker 5:

yes he was but uh uh but he in jail he is in jail uh since uh in 2016 yeah in jail as a lifetime imprisonment after two um more surgeries girl my face is uh more surgeries ten surgeries maybe my face ten my face and you look at my photo and my story all and uh my eyes and nose totally is a damage really yes and did you so then did they

Speaker:

Is there a special program in India where that happens when they will help you with facial reconstruction yes yeah and that's paid for yes yeah

Speaker 5:

This cafe is a provider yeah all treatments is a free of course the uh Delhi is a some the uh uh can Ames hospital yeah and uh doctor is a time and uh uh all girls are medical

Speaker:

Okay and how did you find out about this place this cafe?

Speaker 5:

Newspapers, newspapers my mom is a working another place and she uh one lady is asking now the start is a new cafe is acid attack girls is a run by acid girls and you please you uh visit you the cafe and after uh your daughter the feeling is the bad then uh my mom is a came and after 15 for January I'm came to the hill and the first time um look at round almost two years not going to the house right yes yes every time inside my home every time that's what I'm asking uh only because beautiful I'm not beautiful my thing is I'm uh that in side is that she felt like it it's easy to finish the life instead of living instead of surviving

Speaker:

And what did what difference did it make to you coming and getting this job like how did it change things?

Speaker 5:

Initially when it happened she used to cover her face. So she stayed inside the home for two years and then when she has to work out or she has to go out for somewhere she would make sure that she covers her face because she had no confidence to talk to people. But since she's joined this place and she's like she's very much confident to face anybody. And now she has changed her lifestyle that she wants to enjoy her life you know and you know she wants to live her life basically and uh no more covering of the face. And she goes and talks to people even she breaks the ice, she initiates that so that's the confidence she has already gained working at the space.

Speaker:

And how many how many women work here?

Speaker 5:

Uh 300 girls 300 yes four branches this cafe this four branches the cafe the first Agra second is Lucknow third is a Noida and fourth is a new Dehli then uh divided all girls

Speaker:

Wow - what what would your message be to other women that this has happened to?

Speaker 5:

It's just not acid attacks you know, women go through a lot of different heinous crimes against women, so she says that it's just not this crime, any crime if it has happened to you, which has shaken your soul you have to think of your life future life. And you can't just cry and sit behind what they have done in their life, but now they are much happier and that's what they want to say to other women. That well God forbid it should not happen, but in case something like this happens or any other mode of crime happens you know they should not you know feel like they don't feel like that and exactly don't feel like a victim and where they should come in front, face the people, face the society, fight for yourself and then you know that is the only way they'll feel peace and they'll be happier, a much much happier person.

Speaker:

That was this episode's Hidden Hero and Heroes the people or person making a difference in their community through tourism and travel. It was absolutely inspiring chatting to the ladies at She roes Hangout. They truly empower so many women across the country with their positive attitude and resilience. If you go to India do go and support them. The food and coffee are highly recommended too. Sheroes, we salute you all!

Speaker:

And just like that it's nearly the end of the episode so nearly time for me to reveal my inspiring Wander Woman of the month. I hope you've enjoyed what you've heard please do subscribe so you never miss an episode and please please please do leave a review. It means so very much. You can follow me on Instagram at Phoebe R Smith, find me on Blue Sky or go to my website phoebe-smith.com where you can sign up for my occasional newsletter and of course send me a message. Now, this episode we journey to Indonesia in the 1850s where a midlife woman is getting into a rather sticky situation...

Speaker:

"Don't eat me! I'm an old woman... so my flesh is very tough!" These are the words coming out of the mouth of the 55 year old woman deep in Sumatra in western Indonesia. She's surrounded by 80 or Batak men, all with knives drawn and pointed at her throat. It's impressive that she found the nerve to say any words at all but even more so that she uttered them using her very limited vocabulary of Malay.

Speaker:

But as soon as she did one by one the men began to laugh and they let her go.

Speaker:

The year was 1850 and the woman won Ida Pfeiffer. She was among the first European travellers to visit Sumatra in western Indonesia and she clearly made friends with the locals who were rumoured back then - by other 19th century travellers to be cannibals. She acquired a carved magic staff called a Tunggal panaluan as well as specimens of fish and birds.

Speaker:

The fact that she was a middle aged woman travelling alone in the 1850s crossing the Indian Ocean in a 142 tonne topsail schooner is remarkable enough but this isn't even close to being the most remarkable thing that she did. In fact it's not even the most remarkable thing she did that decade.

Speaker:

Ida celebrated her 50th birthday on a camel ride through Iran an adventurous year. She'd also climbed Mount Vesuvius travelled through Kurdistan with a camel caravan had dinner with Queen Palmer IV of Tahiti and had been kidnapped by Cossacks and imprisoned overnight. It's estimated that she travelled 32,000 kilometers by land and 240,000 kilometres by sea, circumnavigated the globe twice and visited Southeast Asia, North America, South America, the Middle East, Africa and the Northern Islands. She became a respected explorer, ethnographer and travel writer, writing journals that were translated into seven different languages.

Speaker:

Thoreau mentioned her in Walden, as did Darwin in his Descent of Man.

Speaker:

In this episode dedicated to the micro retirement, it's perhaps pertinent to note that Ida Pfeiffer didn't even set off on her travels until she was a 45 year old empty nester.

Speaker:

Born Ida Reyer in 1797 to a large wealthy manufacturing family, she got the taste for travel at a young age with visits to Palestine and Egypt with her family. But it was among books she really developed her passion for exploration, citing Robinson Crusoe and Alexander von Humboldt. She later wrote: "In exactly the same manner as the artist feels an invincible desire to paint and the poet to give free course to his thoughts, so I was hurried away with an unconquerable wish to see the world."

Speaker:

Ida married Dr Mark Anton Pfeiffer he was a widower with a son and they had two children together although a third that they had lived only for a few days. The couple didn't spend much time together due to financial issues. Ida stayed in Vienna while her husband lived in what is now Lviv, Ukraine.

Speaker:

At the age of 45, her son's grown and employed she told her friend she was going on a short trip down the Danube to Constantinople and she did exactly that much to their consternation. But arriving in what is now Istanbul she continued on to Rhodes, Cyprus, Beirut, Jaffa, arriving in Jerusalem before visiting Alexandria, Cairo and the settlements around the Red Sea.

Speaker:

She wrote about her journey in an anonymous book A Vienna Woman's Trip to the Holy Land. It was an instant success which paid for her next travels this time to Scandinavia and Iceland where she learned how to take daguerreotypes and preserve natural specimens. By now Ida was unstoppable.

Speaker:

In 1846 she set off on her first trip around the world to - deep breath - Brazil, Chile, Tahiti, China, India, Persia and Greece. It took two years, during which time she sailed on a Danish brig, explored the Amazon with only one guide, hunted in Singapore, travelled on a bullet cart to Bombay and joined a caravan to Tbilisi, Georgia, crossed the Black Sea into Russia, eventually returning to Vienna in 1748.

Speaker:

Her book A Woman's Journey Round the world became another global bestseller, earning reviews from around the globe. They were dramatic accounts, she could spin a line. "I put my pistols in proper order and made up my mind not to sell my life cheaply."

Speaker:

She travelled on a shoestring. This was not the Grand Tour of the wealthy. She blagged spaces on junks and travelled on local transport often camels. In 1851 she set off again from Berlin just after they made her an honorary member of the Geographical Society of Berlin. The British Royal Geographical Society was still decades away from allowing women to join.

Speaker:

London to Cape Town, Cape Town to the Malay Archipelago and Singapore where she collected specimens. Borneo, Jakarta, her run in with the cannibals of Sumatra where she saw a prisoner beheaded and their blood turned into a pudding eaten with rice. The ears and noses she said were preserved for the Rajah.

Speaker:

Across the Pacific to California during the Gold Rush then into Central America, Ecuador, Peru. Her next volume called Second Journey Round the World was equally well received. Her last trip was to Madagascar she probably contracted malaria from which she never really recovered and died in 1858 in the home of her brother.

Speaker:

Ida Pfeiffer travelled at a time before most women did and did so largely alone and during midlife. She did it on a shoestring. She wrote about her travels and she did it all before anybody else. Ida was a true pioneer and for that reason she is very clearly one of the most adventurous Wander Women we've ever had. And that's saying something.

Speaker:

That was the inspiring Wander Woman of the month the traveller whose name is lost in the history books purely because of her gender. I hope that whenever you're trying to cram in an adventure on a budget or wonder if you're getting too old for this, you remember Ida Pfeiffer and say F it and do it anyway.

Speaker:

On the next episode of the Wander Woman Podcast, I head to British Columbia to take the ferry that kickstarted tourism to the indigenous communities that line Canada's westernmost fringes. I speak to disabled and chronically ill poet and author Vik Bennett about her new book The Apothecary by the Sea which sees her travel from her home, 500 miles away to the Isles of Orkney to start a new life in the land of long winters and endless summers. And I'll be revealing more of my inspirational Wander Woman of the month. See you next time, Wander Woman out.

Speaker:

The Wander Woman podcast is written and produced by me Phoebe Smith. The editor and writer of additional material is Daniel Nielson. The logo was designed by John Summerton. A final shout out to all the people I met on my journey and were willing to talk to me. It's because of you that this episode was able to happen at all.