The Milk Run

A ferry announcement about whales comes over the tannoy and suddenly the cafeteria empties, the crew step away from their tasks, and everyone presses to the windows. That shared pause is the heartbeat of slow travel, and it’s why Adventurer Phoebe Smith takes you onboard BC Ferries’ “Milk Run” from Vancouver Island up through Canada’s Inside Passage. This isn’t a floating resort. It’s a working supply route that carries food, freight and locals between remote Indigenous coastal communities and, for travellers, it’s one of the most affordable ways to see humpbacks, orcas, sea lions and wild, rain-soaked shorelines.

Also coming up:

• Author of All My Wild Mothers and new book The Apothecary by the Sea: A Year in an Orkney Garden and self-confessed wild woman Victoria 'Vik' Bennett 
• Travel Hack: how to travel on a budget without being a backpacker 
• Top 10 of the best ferry rides in the world
• Meet the woman who's been making an audio record of women adventurers – of all ages, shapes and sizes – with her Tough Girl Podcast for the past 10 years, Sarah Williams
• Gear chat: what to pack for a scenic ferry ride
• Isobel Gunn – who in 1806 passed herself off as a man and inadvertantly becoming the first European woman to travel to Rupert's Land, now part of Western Canada – is our Wander Woman of the Month.

If you enjoy travel stories with substance, subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave a review so more listeners can find us.

www.Phoebe-Smith.com; @PhoebeRSmith

Transcript

Speaker 2 0:00

On this month's Wander Woman podcast.

Speaker 4 0:02

If you're in the cafeteria or something like that and they make an announcement about whales, every passenger and all the crew are all standing at the windows. Everything kind of just ceases.

Speaker 2 0:11

I head to Canada and the province of British Columbia to experience travel the slow way on a ferry ride called the Milk Run from Vancouver Island through the full length of the Inside Passage to the country's northern tip. I also chat to author Vik Bennett about her move to Orkney, a place that stirs the soul.

Speaker 3 0:31

This isn't Scotland. I mean it is, but it's definitely Orkney is Orkney and Scotland is Scotland, and that's over there.

Speaker 2 0:39

And I meet the woman who's been making an audio record of women adventurers of all ages, shapes and sizes with her Tough Girl podcast for the past 10 years, Sarah Williams.

Speaker 1 0:50

I got to a point where I don't want to hear men talk about how they manage training for an ultra marathon when they're not doing any childcare, when they don't have, you know, elderly parents look after when they're not doing the bulk of life admin. I want to hear from women who are in their 40s, who do have children, who are going through perimenopause, who are still training for an ultra. That's where it gets really interesting.

The Milk Run, BC, Canada

Speaker 2 1:17

Also coming up, how to travel on a budget without being a backpacker in my monthly travel hack. Discover 10 of the best ferry rides in the world. And in my regular gear section, I help you wrap up warm to survive life on deck, still with a smile on your face. Finally, I'll be revealing this episode's Wander Woman of the Month, the traveller whose name is lost in the history books. You're listening to the Wander Woman Podcast, an audio travel magazine with me, Adventurer Phoebe Smith, exploring off the beaten track destinations, wild spaces, wildlife encounters, and the unsung heroes behind conservation efforts. Come wander with me. It lies about halfway up the western seaboard on the many fringes and inlets that make up the coastline between the tip of Vancouver Island and the northernmost Canadian city in the province, Prince Rupert. I'm listening to staff at Spirit Bear Lodge performing some traditional songs for us and with us as me and other guests are clutching the drumsticks and banging the community drums with them, desperately trying to keep a rhythm. All of the guests who are here on a five-day package are about to head into the rainforest to go wildlife watching. They came in a plane. But me, I arrived by ferry. That is the very brief cry of the horn from the BC ferry I'm riding on as I sail out of the small northern town on Vancouver Island called Port Hardy. The destination for the ship is Prince Rupert, but I'm riding up to a place called Bella Bella, a community that uses it very much as a lifeline, as do many along this coast, as Chief Purser Crystal Malensky explains.

Speaker 8 3:18

We do Bella Bella and Klemtu and when we go south in the wintertime. So we hit up both ports, so we pick up a lot of locals, they go to Hardy and get their groceries and then they come back and yeah, and then Skidegate people go over to Rupert to go to the hospital or go to other towns and do their shopping. So yeah, a lot of locals. Yeah. This is tourist season. We're just ending. But also we get a lot of um like senior tourists in the winter time too, because they know the families are back to school. So if you notice, there's quite a few and tour buses. We still get tour buses. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, sometimes 30, 40 people on a tour bus.

Speaker 3 3:48

From everywhere.

Speaker 8 3:50

Yeah, sometimes local BC, sometimes Albertans, and then like in the summer we'll have like we have you know Germans, Russians, whatever, like.

Speaker 2 3:57

Yep, you heard it right. This isn't just a pleasure cruise for tourists. This is a year-round supply route. Forget the huge ships, floating gin palaces, if you will, that advertise doing the inside passage. Because on this ferry, due to its size and purpose, you properly do the entire inside passage. Bring food, supplies and people between the communities that live along these fringes. And some travellers like me have realised that for around $150, we can come along for the ride. In Bella Bella, I only had time to wander down to the shoreline and watch the birds pick at an old carcass of a huge salmon which had spawned and then met its grisly end. I took a taxi to a coffee shop where locals were talking about how bad the weather had been for fishing. A storm had blown in and lasted several days before I visited. Then I got back on board, and to get more of an insight into this route, I decided to go straight to the top.

Speaker 6 4:52

Nicholas Campbell, I've been captain since uh 2017.

Speaker 2 4:56

Originally from Newfoundland, Nicholas comes from a long line of captains in his family. I asked him what sort of things are transported here on the ferry.

Speaker 6 5:05

We hustle uh like trailers. So it's one of our drivers over there. He uh they have a commercial driver's license, so we have our own kind of small semi-trucks, so we'll they'll drop off their truck, uh we'll attach it, bring it on board, secure it, and then drop those off uh different locations. There's also landing craft that service the islands as well with like dangerous goods and stuff that we can't take.

Speaker 3 5:30

Right, okay.

Speaker 6 5:31

But a lot of the food and uh goods will come through us.

Speaker 2 5:37

He explained how the ferries have been serving this route since the sixties and seventies, and how they slowly have become known to tourists, especially as the ships have improved. He gave me a tour of the deck and let me take the wheel, which was disappointingly small given the size of our great vessel. And for just a few minutes it felt like we were skating across the water, the rugged mountainous edges of the land creating a corridor of pewter and green. I asked him about the wildlife sightings here.

Speaker 6 6:05

There's there's more whales than there's ever been. And they're they're back to pre-hunting levels. Oh, yeah, really? And this time of year they all concentrate on here. So we've got extra people looking out. Spotting dolphins, there's seal sea lions. Will they even see deer swimming? Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. We've got these uh spirit bears that are unique.

Speaker 2 6:28

His mention of spirit bears was pertinent because I was nearing the next stop where I would disembark for a couple of nights, Klemtu, home to the Kitisew and the Heheks, and gateway to the Great Bear Rainforest, which is home to the elusive white furred bears. The rain had caught up with us, and slowly mist began to descend as I got off the ferry and was greeted by Roxanne, a chief in the community here in Klemtu , who told me all about the town.

Speaker 5 6:55

My community is a very beautiful community. We're made up of uh there's about 380 of us that live on reserve. Our full band list is above 500 people.

Speaker 2 7:05

I asked her about the ferry and if she remembers it arriving when she was a kid.

Speaker 5 7:09

It's been very vital for the community because like it brings our freight, our food in, it transports us out in and out of the community. I believe it was in the 90s when the first ferry started tying up at just our local government dock there, and then later on to build the big ferry terminal that you arrived in on. Um it helps our community have more access. So before the ferry, we'd only give freight every two weeks on a bar on a packer.

Speaker 2 7:45

I thought it was just about providing the vital link for these communities to be able to move supplies. But actually, as it turned out, the ferry was what first brought the idea of tourism to the community.

Speaker 5 7:56

So tourism started off in Klemtu as like really small, like the ferry would tie up to our government dock and there'd be walking guided tours in the community. So guests would sign up and be like, get a guided tour, have a taste of Klemtu. So there was a little building that our we would bring the guests to, so we wouldn't know until the ferry would arrive about two o'clock, so we wouldn't know until about one o'clock how many guests we were going to be welcoming. And I worked as a guide back then. And um, so the ferry would tie up and then we'd do a guided walking tour through the community, and then we'd bring them to one of our, we called it the CE building. It was a gathering place, um, and then we'd serve them dinner, they'd get a drumming and dancing experience from a bunch of the youth, and then we'd bring them back to depart the community at six o'clock at night. So it was a whole whirlwind, a full afternoon, but it was fun.

Speaker 2 9:02

Roxanne's colleague Heather also recalled the food they offered and some fun moments when they would suddenly realize they didn't have enough dancers to perform.

Speaker 7 9:10

At the end of the tour, we would have um a little bit of a luncheon to consist of traditional foods. Like you'd just have like a little bit of an appetizer. Yeah. So you just get a taste of our traditional foods, and then um after we would have the little bit of uh appetizers, we'd end it with traditional dancing. So it would consist of us like literally going out on the street and just grabbing kids off the street and being like you're gonna come and dance, do some traditional dancing.

Speaker 2 9:42

Usually worked out. What I loved was hearing from Roxanne how the advent of tourism, which led to the development of Spirit Bear Lodge, which is where she and Heather work, has meant that problems with unemployment are not issues here in Klemtu, which has a 90% employment rate, and it means that they are also not blighted by youth drain. When I got back on the ship the following day, the sun was shining, and while standing on deck, I almost immediately was rewarded by the sight of a pod of orcas feeding while sprays from humpbacks began to appear in the distance. I noticed that though tourists ran up to see them, it was also locals and the crew who came up on deck too. I asked the purser Genevieve, is this normal?

Speaker 4 10:26

If you're in the cafeteria or something like that and they make an announcement about whales, every passenger and all the crew were all standing at the windows, everything kind of just ceases.

Speaker 2 10:35

And perhaps therein lies the magic on this very route. Even the staff who see the wildlife near daily in the summer will always take time to stop and appreciate it when it puts in an appearance. Back on the deck, I watch the sunset with a cold beer in hand, then retired to my cabin, only to be woken up when a few hours later we arrive finally in Prince Rupert, over seven hours after we left Klemtu. On my last day, before heading home, I explored this last Canadian outpost, a city by name, but with the population sits somewhere around 12 to 14,000. I ended up at Prince Rupert Brewery, where Craig Uthette told me about how he likes to work with indigenous communities to make brews that mix in traditional ingredients and are indicative of not only the flavours but the stories within these groups.

Speaker 11:26

We work with Metlakatla First Nation, they um grow uh kelp, like sugar kelp.

Speaker 7 11:32

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 11:33

For food and other purposes. But um, so we've used that sugar kelp in a beer. Um, it's called a goza style of beer, so it provides a little bit of salty brininess to it. It's like a salty, sour old German kind of beer. Yeah. So we make that. That's called Latissima Goza. So I mean, I think anywhere you can use like those like hyper-local ingredients, and if they're unique, I mean, there's like a whole story to tell there.

Speaker 2 11:57

Before I left, I had to ask him if the ferry had made any difference to his brewery.

Speaker 12:02

For us as a brewery, it's uh the ferry is actually incredibly important, especially during the summer months. So they actually carry our beer on the ferry, which is a wonderful thing that has happened for a number of years. But so, yeah, so a lot of visitors when they're making their route up the inside passage, um, I think we're actually even the only beer that's on the ferry right now. So if they try a beer on the ferry, they get to try ours. And we've had you know, I can't even count how many people have come in and said, I tried your beer on the ferry, and so I wanted to come and find you. Nice! So they provide, yeah, obviously, economic benefit to us as a brewery because they're purchasing a lot of our beer in the summertime. Yeah. And just the spin-off of the marketing impact of like people trying our beer on the ferry and then coming to town and trying to find the brewery. So that's it's great. Like the ferry is really important to us as a business.

Travel Hack: Budget Travel Without Backpacking

Wander Woman meets... author Vik Bennett

Speaker 2 12:53

I couldn't believe it. The beer I had drunk to watch that amazing sunset on the deck of the ferry had been one of Craig's. I loved hearing how the ferry helped, is helping, and continues to help the communities along its route. I also heard that BC Ferries is trying to make their entire fleet electric in the next five years to make it the most sustainable way to get to the far reaches of this beautiful province. Unlike a cruise ship that simply passes through, this ferry had a clear direct benefit to communities, giving jobs to locals who were employed by them, bringing much needed goods and supplies to places where there are no roads, and perhaps most importantly, by making visitors to the communities not only spectators, but for a fleeting moment become part of it, which is really what responsible travel is all about. That was me in Canada travelling up BC's west coast from Vancouver Island to the northernmost city of Prince Rupert. I must confess that I enjoyed the views from the deck almost as much as I loved meeting the people who call the small settlements home. And to know it's cheaper and more environmentally friendly than flying or taking a giant cruise ship just made it the perfect trip for me. Now, as you heard from my bargain ferry ride, travel doesn't have to be expensive. In fact, with a few simple hacks, you can bring the price of any trip down significantly, leaving more money for, well, your next trip. And travelling on a budget doesn't have to mean living on pints of milk and sleeping on train station floors, nor does it mean compromise. With a little research, there's an amazing amount of things you can do for free when travelling, and here they are in my monthly travel hack. Firstly, think about the timing. Travel in Europe, for example, is most expensive in summer, and that's true for a lot of the world. So if you can go just before or just after the peak season, the travel industry call this the shoulder season, flight, accommodation and attractions, especially those with dynamic pricing, can be dramatically cheaper even by shifting your dates by a day or two. Plus, you'll avoid all the crowds. But do your research to ensure your visit won't clash with any events that can put the price up unexpectedly. Think sporting events, religious festivals, public holidays or even natural phenomena such as the cherry blossom season in Japan. When you are looking, be sure to use incognito mode in your browser. By setting it to private, you will avoid the price hikes that happen when you frequently revisit to check prices. When it comes to accommodation, plan for the occasional overnight form of transport. Night trains, buses or ferries will save you a night's accommodation and get you to where you need to be. It's not going to be the most luxurious night of your trip, but let's reframe it as a moving hotel with potentially questionable pillows. Another on-the-ground hack is to have lunch for dinner. That is, eat your big meal in the middle of the day rather than in the evening. Many excellent restaurants offer food for a fraction of the price just because it's lunchtime rather than dinner. Look out for Menu del Dia or Prix fix Menu. And don't forget that you can cook for yourself too. Choose hostels or apartments with kitchens to cook a few meals if staying for a few days. It's probably the single quickest way to cut travel costs. Plus, eating out all the time can get a little laborious. Sometimes you just want pasta and pesto, or a cup of tea without having to debate where you're going to stop and have it. With a little research, you'll also find that a lot of attractions are free to visit. Museums often have complimentary evenings or free days each month, and let's not forget that the best experiences when we travel are often free anyway: a walk by the river at sunset, wandering amid markets and neighbourhoods, and seeking out secluded swim spots. That was my Wander Woman travel hack. The advice I serve up each episode to help you connect with every place you journey to, no matter how big or small your budget. Now, someone who loves to physically connect with new places she visits is my first guest, author Victoria a.k.a. Vik Bennett. A mother, home educator, full-time sandwich carer that's caring for elderly parents and a medically vulnerable son, she also juggles all this with several chronic illnesses and disabilities of her own. She used to live in social housing built up over a former industrial stonework in Cumbria, where she created a wild apothecary garden before uprooting in 2022 to move to the far north and settle in Orkney. There she also regularly moderates meet-ups with her wild women writing seminars and workshops. As her new book, The Apothecary by the Sea comes out, I caught up with her to talk about her new home in Orkney, the light, and why gardening really roots her to a place. Okay, so Vic, you're living in Orkney now, but you weren't always there. So tell me, how have you ended up living in Orkney?

Speaker 3 17:43

Oh, probably how a lot of people end up living in Orkney. I sort of fell in love with it virtually before my son was born, so we're going back to kind of 2000 early 2007 uh when I applied for a writing residency there and didn't get it but kind of got obsessed with the place, so I started reading lots and finding lots of things out about it. Um and then life sort of came along and uh my son came along and things happened and my sister died and I couldn't go there. And then when my son was uh about two and had been diagnosed with diabetes um type one diabetes, we decided to come here um and camp, just needed to get away, start again, and uh felt like I'd come home and then came back a couple more times later on, still couldn't move here and then ended up moving here in 2022, November 2022. So it was sort of a long love story, long drawn-out affair.

Speaker 2 18:45

And what was it about Orkney that drew you there in the first place? Because some people have never even heard of it.

Speaker 3 18:51

Okay. Um it's kind of a strange one because initially when I came it was the well, I suppose with the virtual thing, I just I just loved the story of it, but that it had so many stories in it. Um sort of from the kind of the Neolithic to kind of the old Norse and and just there was a sense of wildness to it. Um that I could really feel it f it felt really visceral um before I'd even come here. When I first came here I was kind of in that deep throes of grief and it felt I felt really connected to it in that way. That the the the sort of the wildness it was in October, the wildness of the sea, the sort of ferocity of it, the way that nothing stayed the same. That felt um that felt like it made a lot of sense to me in the midst of grief, rather than kind of you know, rolling hills and gentle sort of gardens. That that just felt like I could connect to it more.

Speaker 2 19:49

And you because you were in Cumbria before, right?

Speaker 3 19:52

Uh yeah, so very different, very much in the middle of the country, surrounded, we're in the Eden Valley, so surrounded by hills and fields and hit and trees. Very different landscape, very different, very beautiful, but very different.

Speaker 2 20:09

And how does Orkney inspire your writing now? You've been there since 2022. This is your second book that's just come out. How has it inspired your writing, do you think?

Speaker 3 20:18

Yeah, so um The Apothecary by the Sea is coming out April this year, I think, isn't it? Um so that that kind of came about through through writing into growing a garden uh here um and and discovering about the plants and the the sort of the landscape. But I suppose sort of it inspires me in that it it you know it I feel I sound a bit like a cliche actually. Um I feel very connected to the elements here. Um in that you can't really escape them. You can't really you're not you're definitely not in control uh of things and it nature reminds you constantly that you're not in control of things. Um that for me works creatively because I think it's quite a good thing to remember as a as a writer that you're not really in you know, we can craft a story, but we can't we can't control every element of life, we can't control um everything about sort of the story that we have to kind of give ourselves rest times and you know, work times, and so I kind of that that tuning in more to the the rhythms of of my creativity.

Speaker 2 21:28

And you mentioned before about uh trees in Cumbria versus Orkney. What what how is it different to people who've never been? How is it different from the rest of mainland Britain up in Orkney?

Speaker 3 21:40

Okay, well, for starters, um sort of over the way is referred to as Scotland, so this isn't Scotland. I mean it is, but it's definitely Orkney is Orkney and Scotland is Scotland, and that's over there. Um so it has a very unique identity. Um it so geographically. It's an archipelago. It's you know every which way I look is sea. There's only one part of Orkney that is landlocked, kind of fully landlocked. It's very flat. There's one kind of there's one island hoy that is hilly and is more like what you'd imagine kind of the Scottish Islands to be like. You know, it's sort of heather and peat and um sort of well we refer to it as a mountain, but it's not really. Um and then there's there's another Rousay has got um you know a bit of a hill in the middle, but the rest of it mainly is flat. Um obviously you know one end of one end of an island you'll get a really high cliff and the other end will be flat to the sea, and I've never quite understood that. Um But so it's very agricultural, um unlike um sort of the highlands. It's you know it's it has been very cultivated in that way, um with cattle and sheep, so there's a lot of green plain green spaces. Um and yeah, there's there are trees. They're not as you might imagine, they're certainly not sort of ancient forests and things, um, but there are trees. Once upon a time they w uh the islands were covered in trees, but that's a very, very, very long time ago. Um so mainly the trees are there in where you've got sort of villages and they're sheltered, um, they're small, you know. I always think Shetland ponies are the size they are because they've shrunk in the wind. It's how they manage. It's like as an advantage. I'm five foot four, and I think there's an advantage to being short in Orkney. So all the trees are short.

Speaker 2 23:50

And and so what's your favourite thing about Orkney? What do you think about your favourite thing about being there? Now you've been there a few years.

Speaker 3 23:57

I think it has to be the light. I think it's good because I mean people sort of the thing that I'm asked a lot is, you know, how do you cope with the dark because of the long winter and the short days? And yes, you know, it does the days are a lot shorter. Um but it is the it's the quality of the light that's here. So in the summer it's it's kind of a an intense, sort of constant light. You know, we've got double days as a as as I sort of see them, where it it doesn't really get dark at all. Um and then in the winter it you know, you start seeing this change quite early on in the year, really. I suppose towards the end of August you start seeing this change in the light, and it becomes very alchemical, and it's kind of everything starts sort of going into silver and gold and um and you know, there are there are times where you can't really see the space between the sky and the sea because the islands are flat, so you get this kind of thin slither of green and the rest is just light, where the you know the sea and the sky merge and it it's it's completely immersive. Um so I suppose that's my my favourite thing about it. Um then I mean really selling it to me, yeah. Um and it's it's the quiet as well, you know. I mean it's it is when when I you know there's I don't think I I don't think I could find any comparison to kind of sitting on the bay and you know, there's the light and the sea and the sky and the sound of the birds and the water and there's nothing else and it's just you know in this incredibly busy world, um with all the pressures and stress of it all, it's a great privilege to be able to have that as my life.

Speaker 2 26:02

Wow, wow. And and talk about your books then, so both of them are very rooted in herbs, plants, growing of the metaphorical way and the physical way of growing something, all mixed so beautifully with memoir. What makes you choose to intertwine these particular elements together when you're writing?

Speaker 3 26:23

Well, in in All My Wild Mothers, which was my debut memoir, and this one, um, and in Apothecary by the Sea they're both gardening for me and growing the garden has been is part of my way of finding finding my place, finding my roots, um and and making a home. So it it has to be part of that when I'm talking about those spaces and those journeys, but also it's how I connect with the world around me. So when you know when I walk around, I kind of am noticing the plants and I I want to get to know them and I want to know their names and I want to know their stories and you know it's sort of that that that relationship with with the small things that grow is important to me. And I think that's gone.

Speaker 2 27:17

I was gonna say you you mentioned names, which is quite nice to talk about because you also use the Orcadian names when you talk about the herbs and plants in this one. And what is it about them and I guess the folklore behind the names that inspires you so much?

Speaker 3 27:33

Well, I think I think naming is is really important. I think in in any part of our relationship with anything, it's sort of that that um naming is important and understanding the names that that that thing, that person, that being um brings with them rather than just me naming them. So I could bring my names that I've learned for plants um to them, but but by learning the trying to learn the Orcadian name, I'm learning something more about their relationship with this land, the stories that they carry, how other people here have used them, um, and their relationship with them. So I'm kind of stepping into a long conversation and that feels like there's more to be got from there, and that there's a deeper relationship to have. And also a lot of those old names, you know, whether that's the Orcadian or the um, you know, in other areas of the country, they actually tell us quite a lot about the properties of the plant, whether where it grows, how people have used it. So they give a lot of clues as to as to what the plants can bring and and where they thrive and and you know that. We miss we miss all that if we just use a generic name.

Ten Of The World’s Best Ferries

Speaker 2 28:51

That was author and self-confessed Wild Woman Victoria Bennett. Do check out her new book, The Apothecary by the Sea, and her earlier memoir, All My Wild Mothers. Now Vic had me wistfully craving the silent shores and windswept wilds of Orkney, a place I went to nearly five years ago now, via you guessed it, the ferry. Which brings us nicely to this week's top ten and the best ferry crossings in the world. Because as we have already heard, these small ships do more than get people and vehicles and goods from A to B. They offer an insight into the culture of the places you're visiting. So dismiss any memories of the Dover Calais, aka vomit comet you took on school trips as a kid and prepare to find yourself a new favourite way of exploring.

Speaker 2 29:36

At 10, it's the Vancouver to Vancouver Island Tsawwassen to Victoria in Canada's British Columbia province. It's not too long, but it will see your huge BC ferry weaving through forested islands in whale-rich waters in the stunning Salish Sea.

Speaker 2 29:52

For 9, we journey to New Zealand and the Wellington to Picton Ferry. This three-hour crossing between the North and South Islands through the Marlborough Sounds is often cited as one of the most beautiful ferry journeys in the world, and for very good reason. Go and you'll see why.

Speaker 2 30:09

Same side of the world but further north for number eight is the Hong Kong Star Ferry. This short but iconic crossing between Hong Kong Island and Kowloon is unforgettable for the great harbour skyline that seems to rise all around you as you sail.

Speaker 2 30:24

At seven, the commuter utilised Staten Island Ferry in New York, USA. Not only does it cross New York Harbour past the Statue of Liberty, taking in killer views of Manhattan's skyline, but it's also completely free of charge.

Speaker 2 30:39

We're heading back to Blighty for six with the Portsmouth to St. Milo or Cairn, Brittany overnight channel crossing to France, includes cabins, sea air and the sense of setting off on a proper journey.

Speaker 2 30:51

Further up the British Isles is our number five, the Sky to Harris, Uig to Tarbet ferry. Linking the inner and outer Hebrides, be sure to be out on deck as you approach Harris, where the beaches glow white and the seas look almost turquoise. You'll need to pinch yourself to make sure you've not made a detour to the Caribbean.

Speaker 2 31:11

At four is the classic exotic ferry from Europe to Africa, going to Tangier from Spain. It never ceases to amaze me that in under an hour you move from one continent to another, watching the rock of Gibraltar fade into the horizon behind you as you finally reach Morocco.

Speaker 2 31:29

Number three brings us to possibly the world's most scenic commuter ferry, the Istanbul Bosphorus Ferry in Turkey. Feel smug as you seamlessly glide between Europe and Asia, passing Ottoman palaces, mosques and fishing boats, while seagulls follow behind in your wake.

Speaker 2 31:46

At two is the Helsinki to Tallinn Crossing, said to be one of Europe's busiest ferry routes, it's also one of its most enjoyable. Two hours sailing across the Baltic Sea, linking Finland with the medieval old Estonian town. The ferry itself is huge, with saunas, bars and of course panoramic views right from the deck.

Speaker 2 32:06

And at one it's Canada but the other side with the Bella de Desgagnés, which takes in the tiny communities along Quebec's lower north shore. This expedition-like ferry links the roadless communities that line the St. Lawrence Gulf between Rimouski, Sept-Îles and Blanc-Sablon. It's the only supply and passenger link for many villages and feels more like a slow Arctic voyage than public transport. For a first hand insight, do check out the Wander Woman episode Beyond the End of the Road, which you'll find in Series 1, Episode 5. Bon voyage, Me ami!

Gear To Stay Warm On Deck

Speaker 2 32:42

That was my top 10, the part of the episode where I seek to inspire your Wonderlust to make sure every single part of your trip is memorable. Speaking of memory, when taking the ferry, in Canada specifically, but actually on any of the journeys we've just heard about, remembering to pack properly is definitely the way to ensure you have a smooth sailing. So this episode's gear chat is all about just that. Packing well to make the most of your fantastic ferry ride. As you've heard earlier in the episode, taking the ferry along Canada's west coast is less about the crossing and more about the experience. Misty horizons, forested islands, and the chance to spot wildlife along the way, from bears to whales. But the conditions can catch you off guard, even in summer when it's often cold, damp and windy out on deck. Which is why what you pack in your hand luggage and be sure to keep it easy to grab separate from your main luggage is so key.

Speaker 2 33:38

Let's start, as we always do, with layers. A moisture wicking base layer against your skin, a warm midlayer like fleece or wool above it, and a wind and waterproof jacket on top will keep you comfortable when the breeze picks up or you get caught by some unexpected sea spray. Temperatures can feel slightly colder once the ferry is moving, so don't rely on inland weather reports alone. Gloves and a woolly hat are essential, especially if you plan to stay outside for long stretches with your camera, which you should to up your chances of seeing the wonderful wildlife. Footwear also matters more than you probably think. Decks are often wet and slippery, so wear shoes with good grip. Ideally waterproof but definitely closed toe and ankles. This is not the place for sandals or sliders.

Speaker 2 34:25

One essential item people often overlook are binoculars. The coastal routes are prime territory for spotting whales, seals and seabirds, and maybe even a bear or two, and even distant shoreline details you'd otherwise miss. A compact pair are easy to carry and make a massive difference to thinking you may have seen something, to knowing you have and taking in every single detail.

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Finally, bring plenty of snacks, water, sunscreen, yes, even in the cool weather, and something to protect your electronics from spray. Ferries are comfortable inside, but the real magic is always out on deck. So be sure you go dressed for it. That was my monthly gear chat, the advice I offer every single episode that could make the very important difference between thriving and surviving.

Hidden Hero: Tough Girl Podcast creator Sarah Williams

Speaker 2 35:13

Now, one woman who knows all about this is my next guest. Sarah Williams is the founder of Tough Girl Challenges and host of the award-winning Tough Girl Podcast. An adventurer in her own right, she's completed 31 incredible expeditions across 13 plus countries, including the Appalachian Trail, the Marathon de Sables, cycling the length of North America, walking the Te Araroa track in New Zealand, and so many more. But her real passion is inspiring women and girls to dream big, break barriers, and step outside their comfort zones. I caught up with her to talk role models, finding your tribe, and why women in their 60s and 70s are so inspiring.

Speaker 1 35:55

I am the host of the Tough Girl Podcast and the founder of Tough Girl Challenges, which is all about motivating and inspiring women and girls, especially in the world of adventure and physical challenges. So I have a platform which, to be honest, is more about amplifying other women's voices in the adventure space. So my job is to share women's stories, provide advice and top tips to encourage more women to get outside, take on new challenges, and go and venture for themselves.

Speaker 2 36:21

And how did it all begin? What made you decide to launch this platform?

Speaker 1 36:26

So many, many, many years ago now, so I've actually just recently celebrated the 10-year anniversary of the Tough Girl podcast. But um, I was a city girl. I lived in London working in banking and finance with high net worth individuals. Uh, what some people call living the dream. Um, I was not living the dream. I was stressed out, burnt out, tired, grey, ill, and need to make a change. So I quit my job at 32, spent two years travelling and went and climbed Kilimanjaro. What else did it? Oh, we spent time in Australia or in South America. I rode on buses, I did a lot of journaling, and I decided, you know, what do I actually enjoy doing with my time? And I came up with Tough Girl Challenges, which was to combine my love adventure and challenge. And initially it was a blog, and then it turned into a podcast, and it's just sort of evolved from there, really. One of the things that I realized is I think when I was in my early 30s, was that I was going to lots of schools speaking to young girls and women about sort of venture and physical challenges, and for me, the obvious thing was literally there's no role models. Like women do not get to see other women in the newspapers, in the magazines, on television, doing these adventures and challenges. Things have changed a hell of a lot now. If you think about you know the Rugby World Cup, the Football World Cup, the cricket, you know, girls on women are growing up, seeing women be strong and athletic and you know, going out and rowing across oceans or running in Ultra Trail, Mont Blanc, etc. And it's just so, so inspiring. But back when I was a child growing up, that wasn't around, that wasn't available for women. So um, part of part of that reason was starting up Tough Girl Challenges was to literally to increase amount of female role models in the media.

Speaker 2 38:09

And what have you noticed then? Because obviously that's talking about like when we were young, and then I mean we're still young, obviously. When we when we were kids, we didn't have these role models. But what do you think, particularly in the last 10 years, has shifted to make everything more visible?

Speaker 1 38:23

To be honest, it's it's social media, it's the power of social media. And look, there's a good there's a good side of social media and there's a bad side of social media. But if you've ever sat at home thinking, am I strange for wanting to spend time in the outdoors or I want to go and walk the Appalachian Trail or run multiple marathons across a desert, you go on social media, you can find your tribe, you can find your community, you can find the people who like so I like hiking and I like hiking quite quickly, but there are other people who like slow hiking, and there's so there'll be people who you who can you can find have common interests. So you can share knowledge, you can share resources, and even if you're training for a 5K, for example, there's now, you know, there's parkrun available, there's couch to 5k, there's other women out there sharing about their experiences, even in the power of like Facebook groups. So I have my own community, the Tuscell Tribe. Previously, the only information you'd be able to get would be through newspapers, magazines, the radio, the television, who is which used to have gatekeepers. So even, you know, the stories that were being told, who were they written by? Men. Who were they written for? Men. The male gays. That is what women were consuming. And now it's like, well, I got to a point where I don't want to hear men talk about how they manage training for an ultramarathon when they're not doing any childcare, when they don't have um, you know, elderly parents to look after when they're not doing the bulk of life admin. I want to hear from women who are in their 40s, who do have children, who are going through perimenopause, who are still training for an ultra? That's where it gets really interesting.

Speaker 2 40:00

And you've you've mentioned that, and being in your 40s, perimenopause, which has become this big topic, we can now there's a name for it, we can talk about it and all that. How do you think that has changed things? Do you are you finding like the people that you're getting on your podcast, the women that you're highlighting, is it now there's more older women doing this or just starting out getting into it? Um, what what's changed sort of in that demographic, do you think, of adventurers?

Speaker 1 40:27

I uh oh that's a good question. Um I think there's always been older women doing these adventures and challenges, but after women reach a certain age, they get ignored and so they become like invisible, which for some women is great. It's just like no, I'm just gonna get on and carry on and live my best life, and they'll go and do all the travelling and do the bikepacking tours and enter running races and go hiking, which is fantastic. But again, social media women are like, Well, I'm gonna start writing my blog, I'm gonna start my YouTube channel, I'm gonna be a 50-year-old woman hiking on the PCT, and I'm gonna start a YouTube channel, and you people will find their niche. I think the other thing as well is you know, the knowledge sharing, women talking about perimenopause and menopause, it's not this big secret anymore. My god, 52% of the population of women are gonna go through this and experience this. And so previously, women will be thinking, I'm going crazy. Why am I so anxious all the time? Why am I why am I not sleeping? Why are my joints aching? What you know, what is going on? Because you know, the knowledge wasn't there, and women are now like, no, the doctors have been ignoring me. Why? Male doctors don't understand women's bodies. There hasn't been enough research done into women, into it, okay. I'm like, control, breathe. But yeah, there hasn't been but there hasn't been enough research done. So now women are sharing and saying, Well, actually, these are some of the symptoms that I'm having, this is what I'm experiencing. Then you have wonderful people like Dr. Stacey Sims who are releasing courses about like menopause and sharing it from a scientific perspective. So I think older women have just been doing it. Um, for me personally, with the podcast, I interview a massive range of women. So I think the youngest is probably maybe around 16, 17, just spoke to an 82-year-old or an 81-year-old who'd just written a memoir about her life and her adventures and travelling and moving to France when she was in her early 20s, and it was so, so inspiring. I mean, so I think also as I um as I get older as well. So when I started the podcast, you know, early 30s, I probably started interviewing women who were very similar to me, stressful corporate job, quit the job, made a transition, different change in their life, because that was what I wanted to understand most. And now I'm sort of um getting older. It's like I'm actually really I bring it up all the time, perimenopause, menopause, what is it like? But also I am so inspired by women in their 60s and 70s who are like, you know, doing these adventures and challenges because that's what I want to be doing when I'm that old.

Wander Woman of the Month Isobel Gunn

Speaker 2 42:58

That was this episode's Hidden Hero, the person doing something incredible in travel to help others. And Sarah's audio record of remarkable kick-ass women on the Tough Girl Podcast is just that. Utterly inspiring. Do check it out. And just like that, it's nearly the end of the episode. So nearly time for me to reveal my utterly incredible Wander Woman of the month. I hope you've enjoyed what you've heard. Please do subscribe so you never miss an episode, and please, please, please do leave a review. It means so very much. You can follow me on Instagram at Phoebe R Smith, find me on Blue Sky, or go to my website phoebe-smith.com, where you can sign up for my occasional newsletter and of course send me a message. Now, this episode we journey to Orkney, where a man is about to embark on a voyage to North America, though he, or should we say they are not what they see. On June 29, 1806, in Stromness, Orkney, a person called John Fubister. Walked up the gangplank and aboard the Prince of Wales, a 351-ton three-mast bark bound for Rupert's Land, an expansive historical territory in British North America that surrounded Hudson Bay. Two months later, John disembarked in Moose Factory in what is now Ontario. They had signed up for a three-year contract with Hudson's Bay Company, which was capitalising on the lucrative fur trade. John was to receive £8 a year, a decent income, especially for someone from Orkney.

Speaker 2 44:35

This was a time when Hudson Bay Company often recruited Orkneymen for their workers, labourers, trappers, and traders. Once in Rupert's Land, John was sent along the Albany River to Fort Albany to deliver provisions and goods that would be traded for fur. On the return journey, they bought back wood for boat building. John's career with the Hudson's Bay Company saw him travel across what is now Canada, including an expedition to the little visited Western Canada, a journey of some 2,900 kilometres. Except, John harboured a secret. John's real name was Isabel. Isabel Gunn.

Speaker 2 45:17

She had disguised herself as a man to work for Hudson's Bay Company. For a year and a half, she worked as a labourer. She travelled through the wilds of Canada and the northern United States and is now believed to be the first European woman to travel to Western Canada. Isabel Gunn was born on August 10, 1780, in Orphea, Orkney, to John Gunn and Gizal Allen. But we know very little else about her early life, or indeed her later life, and the story of the woman who disguised herself as a man to work in Canada has barely been told.

Speaker 2 45:54

What motivated Isabel, aged 26, to cut off her hair, wear men's clothes, and fool the employers of Hudson's Bay Company to travel across the Atlantic, we don't know for sure. She would have certainly earned more money than if she had remained in Orkney, and her brother George was already working for the fur trading monopoly, and she could have been following him. The company didn't employ women, but it regularly employed the tough Orkneymen, people accustomed to the harsh conditions expected in Canada.

Speaker 2 46:23

Another theory, however, and quite likely, is that she was actually following a lover. As she boarded the Prince of Wales, it's likely that the other Orkneymen knew her secret, but this was a tight-knit and small community, and her secret was safe for the time being. The longest trip of Isabel's journey was also the toughest. In May 1807, she joined an expedition to Martin Falls, a journey of 2,900 kilometres. They travelled along the Red River that flows from Hudson's Bay to Wapenton, North Dakota. It was one of the highways of the fur trade.

Speaker 2 47:02

The leader of the brigade, Hugh Henney, wrote of her, Furbister worked at anything and well like the rest of the men. The brigade overwintered at the Hudson's Bay Company Post in Pembina, now in North Dakota, and for Christmas they visited a post of the North West Company, a competitor. On December 29th, she began to feel unwell and asked fur trader Alexander Henry for help. In a remarkable diary entry, Alexander wrote, I returned to my room, where I had not been long, before he sent one of my own people requesting the favour of speaking with me. Accordingly, I stepped down to him and was much surprised to find him extended out upon the hearth, uttering most dreadful lamentations. He stretched out his hand towards me and in a pitiful tone of voice begged my assistance and requested I would take pity upon a poor, helpless, abandoned wretch who was not of the sex that I had every reason to suppose, but was an unfortunate Orkney girl, pregnant and actually in childbirth. In saying this, she opened her jacket and displayed to my view a pair of beautiful round white breasts. In about an hour she was safely delivered of a fine boy, and that same day she was conveyed home in my cariole, a horse-drawn carriage, where she soon recovered.

Speaker 2 48:30

For the other men, astonishment was a response she was met with. The child's father was John Scarth, another Hudson's Bay company employee who had travelled on the Prince of Wales with Isabel. We do not know whether it was a consensual relationship or not, but we do know that it wasn't the man she was supposedly following. He was posted to what is now Quebec. Now her gender was revealed, she was returned to Martin Falls and her son John, where she was forced to work as a washerwoman. She may have also worked as a nurse at Fort Albany. There is a record of her son being baptized in October 1808 by the schoolmaster William Harper. On 20 September 1809, she again walked up the gangplank to board once again the Prince of Wales bound for Orkney, her little son in her arms.

Speaker 2 49:20

Having a child out of wedlock could have led her to become ostracised from the community. Accounts suggest that she worked as a stocking and mittenmaker until her death in 1861 at the age of 81. She was undoubtedly poor, and we don't know what happened to her child.

Speaker 2 49:37

Whatever motivated Isobel Gunn to dress as a man and travel to Canada and take part in expeditions across the region, we'll never really know for sure. But what we do know is that the strength of her being and purpose was all the more incredible given the time period in which she worked. She's a very worthy Wander Woman of the Month and a reminder that to break barriers, you don't need to have a higher cause than simply the passion to do something.

Speaker 2 50:04

That was inspiring Wander Woman of the Month Isobel Gunn, the traveller whose name is lost in the history books purely because of her gender. I hope that the next time people talk of being a woman living in a man's world, you think of her and how she did it quite literally and managed to show that anything men could do, she could do too, and thrive.

Speaker 2 50:26

On the next episode of the Wander Woman podcast, I head to Winnie the Pooh Country in Ashdown Forest in South West England to work out what inspired the stories of Christopher Robin. I speak to Lottie Gross, author of the new guidebook to travelling around Europe with your dog, Yes, you really can do it, and I'll be revealing more of my inspirational Wander Woman of the Month. See you next time, Wander Woman Out.

Speaker 2 50:52

The Wander Woman Podcast is written and produced by me, Phoebe Smith. The editor and writer of additional material is Daniel Nielson. The logo was designed by John Summerton. A final shout out to all the people I met on my journey and were willing to talk to me. It's because of you that this episode was able to happen at all.