Undercurrents

A manta ray glides through water as though it owns the ocean, then you remember the uncomfortable truth: many shark and ray species are sliding towards extinction, and we still do not have enough data to protect them properly. From Ishigaki in Okinawa, join adventurer Phoebe Smith as she becomes one of the first people in the world to complete the PADI  (Professional Association of Dive Instructors) Shark and Ray Conservation speciality and uploads her sightings to the Global Shark and Ray Census, showing how everyday divers can turn a camera and curiosity into citizen science that actually makes a difference.

Also coming up:

• Detectorists and authors Roman Found (aka Eleanor Bruce and Lucilla Gray) talk treasure hunting and Thing We Found in the Ground
• Travel Hack: How to thrive on your first scuba dive
• 10 lesser known destinations in Japan
• Meet the man who - following the devastating Tsunami at Fukushima in 2011 began an underwater clean-up efforts that would unite the entire community.
• Gear chat: what to pack in the tropics
• Lady Sarashina – said to be one of the world's first travel writers – is our Wander Woman of the Month.

If you care about responsible travel, scuba diving, marine conservation, Japan and hidden histories, press play. Subscribe, share the podcast and leave a review so more people can find the show.

www.Phoebe-Smith.com; @PhoebeRSmith

Transcript

Welcome To Wonder Woman Podcast

Speaker 10 0:00

On this month's Wander Woman podcast.

Speaker 11 0:03

So we Okinawan people believe that there must be heaven across the ocean.

Speaker 10 0:10

I head to the Ryukyu Islands in Japan to meet the Uminchu or Ocean people who have deep spiritual beliefs connected to the sea. Then, from underwater, I also head underground, right here in Britain, to meet the duo making metal detecting more accessible so that everyone can experience finding their own piece of treasure.

Speaker 7 0:30

It might not look like anything in the ground, but then you might find out that that tiny fragment of silver has been brought in by the Vikings.

Speaker 10 0:36

And I meet a sea hero Japanese diver whose work to clean the waters post-tsunami around Fukushima in 2011 has helped build bridges between all ocean users.

Speaker 3 0:52

But now we have a big strong bond because we work together to clean up the ocean.

Speaker 10 1:02

Also coming up, I give you my top tips for learning to get beneath the waves and attempt your first scuba dive and my monthly travel hack. Discover ten of the lesser-known sites in Japan with my monthly roundup. And in my regular gear section, I help you dress for the tropical islands like Okinawa. Finally, I'll be revealing this episode's Wander Woman of the Month, the traveller whose name is Lost in the History Books. You're listening to the Wander Woman Podcast, an audio travel magazine with me, Adventurer Phoebe Smith, exploring off-the-beaten track destinations, wild spaces, wildlife encounters, and the unsung heroes behind conservation efforts. Come wander with me.

Deeper diving in Japan's Okinawa

Speaker 6 1:38

Congratulations and thank you so much for being the first in the world to upload your very important data to PADI's Global Shark and Ray Census. The course and this census literally just launched right before you guys touched down in Japan.

Speaker 10 1:52

You join me in Japan, on the island of Ishigaki, in the prefecture of Okinawa, part of the archipelago known as the Ryukyu Islands, aka the Galapagos of Asia, for a graduation of sorts. After a couple of hours of online study and four dives, I've just finished the brand new paddy shark and ray conservation speciality course and contributed data I captured to the global census that aims to collect data about these critically endangered species. With nearly one-third of shark and ray species facing an increased risk of extinction due to overfishing, bycatch and habitat loss, this new initiative aims to increase both the monitoring of shark and ray populations and expand diver participation in their conservation. Eurodivers, an outfitter based at ClubMed Resort in Kabira, is one of the first in the world to offer this programme. And I asked the manager, Benjamin Lebrano, why.

Speaker 2:50

We are actually very lucky to be in front of the most one of the most uh famous uh dive sites in Japan, which is a cleaning station from Manta Ray's. We can see them all year round because they are reef mantas, and our dive sites are quite shallow, very nearby, short boat trips. We also have sharks time to time, so yeah, it's uh it's a perfect place to do this specialty. It's easy to spot them because we see them, yeah, the ratio is is a lot, like like not 100%, of course, but very often we can we can encounter them.

Speaker 10 3:23

As well as seeing mantas regularly, I asked Ben why he thought that it was important that people come and do more than just look at these wonderful creatures.

Speaker 3:32

If our divers can contribute to monitor them by uh register them with the the system that we we are doing with padi and the photo, it helps a lot to understand more their behaviour, how many are there in the area, and uh and etc. Yeah, so on.

Speaker 10 3:48

I know what some of you must be thinking. Does it matter that we don't know a lot about them? If they're here, that's the main thing, right? Well, to get a better understanding of the plight of these once called devilfish, I spoke to Rika Ozaki, a Japanese woman who grew up in New Zealand but returned for her studies and started the Japan Manta Project just a year before I met her. It was while she was studying fish gills that she ended up stumbling upon the problem with mantis being caught by accident in fishing vessels' nets, and from that point became, pardon the pun, hooked.

Speaker 1 4:21

I was very taken aback because although I knew that fisheries was a massive problem for Manta and Devil Rays, I guess I had never um like in New Zealand it's very commercial fisheries and very offshore, so it's not something that you can observe very easily. And so I thought, oh my gosh, like is there any way that I can witness or see or observe this? Um and so he was able to get me on this boat kind of as like a guise of doing sea turtle research. Um, and I was able to witness that wow, they're catching them at quite a high uh rate.

Speaker 10 5:01

After connecting with the Manta Ray Trust, started by Guy Stevens, who featured in season one, episode three of the Wander Woman podcast, Have You Ever Been Enchanted? Rika successfully secured funding to get hold of satellite tags to be able to tag and track the creatures and started to gather valuable data. Something she says Okinawa and Ishigaki in particular hold something of a legacy for.

Speaker 1 5:24

In the 1970s, mid-late 1970s, um diving service Ito, Ito diving service of Kohama, which is part of the Yayama Islands, Takashi Ito, started um collecting uh photo IDs and like uploading it to his website. And you know, he names the mantas because he kind of identified that they were um unique.

Speaker 9 5:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1 5:46

Um so yeah, Ishigaki is the longest running database um in the world, and so um a lot of the foundational research of manta rays globally was actually done here, led by Ito-san but also Tom Kashiwagi, um Yano-san also of Ogasamara. Like there was actually a huge kind of um foundational research done in Japan. Um, but that kind of there was um not a lull, but after 2012-2013, there was this kind of big gap. Um, this foundational research was like laid, and then there was this big gap in research of the rest of the world kind of caught up and started researching lots, yeah, understanding the ecology, doing photo ID. Um, but the research in Japan kind of came to a standstill almost. Until now. Yes, until until now, and so I feel like I've kind of came at it almost feels I don't want to sound woo-woo but like serendipitous, it feels like wow. I feel like I was meant to come at that time, and um the timing couldn't have been better.

Speaker 10 7:03

I asked her why collecting this data, even as an amateur doing citizen science, was so important.

Speaker 1 7:10

There's this massive pressure, and they have very low reproductive output, they're long-living. Yeah, and so there's this impeding decline of individuals. Um and but on the other hand, what's quite good about mantis is that they aggregate in very predictable areas, cleaning stations, there's whole dive industries that are around these cleaning stations. Um, and because of that photo ID capability, there's this immense power to track where they're going without expensive equipment. Just a GoPro, just a normal camera and yourself. Yeah, and there's a huge dive in the industry, and so if we can somehow mobilize the diving community to understand the importance of their data, of their photo, there's a massive research potential and of understanding where are they going? If they're going, for example, towards fishery areas or towards major fishing lines, uh fishing lanes, for example, um, how can we mitigate that? How can we protect them? Are they crossing regional or international barriers? And if they are, are they going into unprotected waters? What threats are they facing? And I think by understanding what threats they're facing, then we can start to build this framework of what we can do.

Speaker 10 8:36

It was time to put our newfound skills into action. And so we went back out on the boat and plunged beneath the waves. I was on the hunt, shark style. Knowing my sightings would be contributing to something that could help protect the species I love so much, added another dimension to my dive. I high-fived my dive buddy and let out a little yelp when we spotted a huge stingray trying to camouflage itself in the sand at the bottom of a 25-metre wall, and I proudly pressed the shutter on my camera, data captured. Then, inside a small overhang, I managed to get a glimpse of the tail of a small shark, which swam away before I could even hum a line of the Jaws theme tune. I loved how when I got back to shore, everyone was invested in logging the data on the free Padi Aware app, knowing we'd all done our own bit. Being in these islands, you get a real sense that even when you're out of the water, it is very much part of the life and belief system here. During my required surface interval before flying to my next island of Okinawa, I headed to Yaima Village, an outdoor museum that offers a glimpse into the ancient culture here, and I was hit by the impact the waters that surround it play into that everyday belief system.

Speaker 11 9:58

Ancient Buddhism. So we Okinawan people believe that there must be uh heaven across the ocean.

Speaker 10 10:26

As well as gods coming from across the seas, ocean culture is everywhere. Old houses were built on coral, which works as a natural climate control, as well as offers strength against the annual typhoons. In shops, tiny, briny sea grapes feature and are celebrated for their healthy, life-giving properties. And on the next island of Okinawa mainland, in a place called Ona, their town mascot is Sunca Chan, a coral fairy. Her hair a brightly coloured trio of branching staghorn. Shops sell trinkets made from debris found on beach cleanups, reef safe sunscreen is manufactured with seaweed, and roadside stalls sell the local fire water, Awamori, which has been fermented in cellars under the sea, along with craft beer brewed with coral water filtered in a limestone underground cave. As the sun set, I learned from locals about Uminchu, aka ocean people, who have deep spiritual beliefs connected to the ocean here. To a traveller like me, the sun sets here are dazzling, but to them, seeing the point on the horizon where the sea meets the sky means they are looking at Nirai Kanai, the place where their ancestors go when they die. During a funeral, the whole family actually goes into the ocean to send their ancestors off. And in October, similar to Mexico's Day of the Dead, all the seaside shrines are full with family members who come to have a meal on the graves of their deceased relatives. And that month you do not go into the ocean, for it's very bad luck. Even the fishermen do not fish. The final part of the underwater world I discovered was here at Anu Intercontinental Manza Bay, home to a coral village under the waves. A place where locals are working together to try and repair and regrow coral that's been lost to bleaching following rising sea temperatures. I spoke to dive instructor HyJymi all about it.

Speaker 2 12:35

Coral village, yeah. Um from the from the fishermen from Orna Village, they study for for coral plantation or coral farms. Um about 26, 27 years ago. Yeah. And from Manza, Manza Hotel, we started about 40, 40 years, 14 years ago. Just me for Jimmy? Yeah, that's about 13 years. I mean I'm working with uh on a village. And do feature mess? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 9 13:16

Were you involved with planting the coral village?

Speaker 2 13:19

Yeah, sure.

Speaker 9 13:20

Yeah, sure. So when do were you involved right from the beginning of the planting?

Speaker 2 13:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All the time. We take a small piece from the other point of corals, and then we plant we plant it. Okay, and then we waited for it about one month, two months, and then we take this piece of coral and plant it on other points. Yeah. We we have to do that because uh the coral's life is it's a little bit complicated because the warm water, because the red soil, yeah, it's it's a little bit complicated.

Speaker 10 13:52

In 1998, coral bleaching wiped out 90% of all corals here. So the fishermen and divers decided to act and work together. In a partnership not often seen, fisheries tend to see divers as an annoyance rather than allies. The Village of Ona declared itself a UN-sanctioned coral village and set to work scavenging, surviving coral and creating a huge underwater garden to regrow it. One that local divers, fishermen and visiting guests would help with several times a year.

Speaker 2 14:21

A lot of people, a lot of people, including Mansa Hotel, uh village, and sometimes uh we open for for a normal guest.

Speaker 9 14:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:32

For example, for snorkeling, just to see what can I say? Just to see on a village in us to planting. Yes. In another dive, dive with every people planting. Yeah.

Speaker 10 14:48

And do they they there were words on the block? Do people write their name on the block?

Speaker 2 14:52

Yes, yes, that's important. Um not exactly name. Name in something like um uh uh your own message for for the future, for the girls, for other people. So very good experience.

Speaker 9 15:06

The first site that we saw there were about 600 poles.

Speaker 2 15:09

Yep.

Speaker 10 15:09

That one looked like it was doing better than the others. How long has that one been growing?

Speaker 2 15:14

It's really, really slowly for for it to grow up. And it's about for 30 centimeters.

Speaker 9 15:23

Yes.

Speaker 2 15:24

It's been in it's about four or five years. Wow. It's really slowly to grow up. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 10 15:31

And then towards the end, you took us to another section where you said 25 years of work was gone. When did that happen? When did it all get destroyed?

Speaker 2 15:40

Yeah, because two years ago, the warm water becomes really worse, worse and worse in warm water in the red soil, because you know, a lot of rainy, rainy, rainy, rainy, all the time, rainy in the warm water.

Speaker 10 15:56

The red soil that High Jimmy talks about prevents sunlight from reaching the coral so that they are unable to photosynthesize, which is actually how they eat. That combined with warm water caused by no typhoons, contrary to popular belief, these naturally occurring weather systems are vital for the health of the ocean, as they mix up the cold and hot water, which helps protect the coral, made for devastation to this 25-year plus project. They had over 10,000 strands of coral growing beautifully that was all wiped out in one season. So I had to ask the inevitable question.

Speaker 2 16:29

Do you ever feel sad that you've done all this work and that it's Yes, um I feel really, really sad and really yeah, because you know, 13 years ago uh I have plenty of gorillas and two years ago, three years ago becomes so beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. And then two years ago, the warm water cabin, and red star is coming again, and then destroy, destroy. 25, 26 years of job. Oh my gosh. How do it's a tragic?

Speaker 10 17:01

How do you get yourself into the mindset to think we're gonna do it again?

Speaker 2 17:06

Uh yeah.

Speaker 9 17:09

Got no choice.

Speaker 2 17:10

Yeah, no, no. Don't give up, just just let's go, let's go. Um you the words becomes a little bit hard, but no worry. We need to save the corals, corals' life in Okinawa.

Speaker 10 17:24

And therein lies the key to conservation. It's a slow, often thankless task. One where years of effort can be wiped out by a single event. But the important thing is that we notice, we come together, we plan, we replant, we try again, and most definitely, we never give up. It's perhaps the most powerful lesson I think as travellers we will ever learn. And I thank the divers in Japan for teaching me that.

Speaker 10 17:51

That was me in Japan on the tropical islands of Okinawa. It was a real privilege to spend time both above and below the water, learning about the wildlife and challenges that exist in a place that on the surface seems to be a tropical paradise. And that is why diving, I think, is so important. It allows us to quite literally immerse ourselves in another world and gain a whole new perspective on a place.

Travel Hack: First Scuba Dive Tips That Work

Speaker 10 18:16

So, after listening to that, if you're now dive curious, here is my travel hack for learning how to scuba dive. Firstly, there's no need to start with the dreamiest dive site. Your first dive does not need to be with manta rays in Japan. In fact, it's probably better that it isn't, because you don't want all the distraction. Instead, go somewhere calm, shallow, and beginner-friendly, like a leisure centre in Guildford. The Padi Discover Scuba diving experience is a two-hour introduction to breathing underwater in very zen conditions. A whipping current and low visibility aren't character building. Get the basics right first and don't rush them.

Speaker 10 18:55

Linked to this is getting comfortable in the water. You don't need to be an Olympic swimmer, but you do need to be relaxed, floating, treading water, and putting your face under. Spend time snorkeling. Get used to breathing in water. That's what stops most people moving forward. If you get the breathing right, the rest will follow. Think about it like meditation, but underwater with fins on. You'll have a series of instructors over your diving career, and they're there to help you. Be curious. Ask the questions. Ask everything. If you don't have it in your head, ask again. Any scuba diving lesson is about learning, and do it the way you used to at school. Buoyancy, dive computers, safety drills, masks, equalising, air checks all need to become second nature. When they are, you'll enjoy your first dive so much more.

Speaker 10 19:45

Much of scuba diving is about confidence. You don't want to look like a particularly startled anglerfish on your first dive. Next up is you'll be focusing on equalisation and doing it regularly, and then buoyancy, the art of floating like a jellyfish, rather than being stung by a jellyfish. It's again all about breathing and can be largely mastered in the safety of the swimming pool.

Speaker 10 20:08

Once you're ready to travel and go diving, don't chase the deep. In many regions you'll find there is an array of sea life in shallower and less famous sites. So sign up when you get the opportunity. It gives you a chance to build your experience safely and will mean you're relaxed enough to actually notice the fish without the pressure of trying to see megafauna. Finally, make sure to keep a log of all your dives. Record where you went, how you felt, what you saw, the kit you used. Future you will enjoy reading, Saw Turtle, panic slightly, but loved it.

Speaker 10 20:42

That was my Wander Woman travel hack. The advice I give you each episode to help you immerse yourself just a little deeper into your travel destination. Now, speaking of going deeper, this episode's special guests do just that, and on a regular

Wander Woman meets Roman Found

Speaker 10 20:56

basis. But rather than in the ocean, they prefer digging in the ground. Eleanor Bruce and Lucilla Gray are cousins, detectorists and authors, whose new book, Things We Found in the Ground, charts their discovery of a love for all things buried. I met them in a field in Essex, of course, to find out how they got into it, how we can get stuck in too, and of course, what their biggest find was.

Speaker 8 21:25

I'm Lucy Gray. I'm also a detectorist, but I look for the signals.

Speaker 9 21:31

Well, you have to expand on that. What do you mean by the difference? What's the signals?

Speaker 8 21:34

Well, with a machine, we're sort of looking for different targets that we want to dig. But we're a little bit unique because we dig together, but we only have one machine. So we sort of what what do you think?

Speaker 7 21:46

We tag team it, don't we? We like do it, we're like, we are one unit, but we are two people, if that makes sense.

Speaker 10 21:52

And so tell me, you're related. How did this love of metal detectoring happen?

Speaker 7 21:58

Yeah, well, so uh Cousins, and um, but I'd say even though we're cousins, we didn't really know each other very well younger because uh Lucy grew up in New Zealand, then I grew up here in Lincoln. Um, and then we reconnected during lockdown, just when we were both kind of like bizarrely trapped back in Lincoln.

Speaker 8 22:15

Yeah, um, yeah. So yeah, I was up came over from New Zealand. I was meant to be continuing my fashion career in Europe, and then lockdown or COVID happened, and I kind of had to re-evaluate what I could do. So kind of stuck stuck in Lincoln. Um, but me and Ellie what almost accidentally started metal detecting.

Speaker 7 22:39

Yeah, we just kind of bumped into each other in our granddad's garden, found a navel button together, and then we were like, mm, same time next week. And uh it's been like that ever since.

Speaker 8 22:49

Yeah, we've been doing it ever since. So how long's that been now? How many years? Almost almost six years, and what's the most exciting find that you've had?

Speaker 7 22:58

That's that is I think the hardest question that people ask us. There is um because what what what do you say? Because like all the finds are so different. So, like, is it the Roman finds, is it the gold, is it the Bronze Age Axe, which is like literally the oldest thing a detectorist can find in Britain? Like, what what is the most exciting thing? Because I feel like every find's exciting in its own way, and it's it's more than often it's the story and the research that comes after that makes that find more exciting. Like it might not look like anything in the ground, but then you might find out that that tiny fragment of silver has been brought in by the Vikings, you know? So like suddenly that makes this tiny shard like crazy, like so much more interesting than it ever was before.

Speaker 10 23:39

Someone described it to me as being a bit like time travel. Would you sort of say that's a fair description? Time travel in one place?

Speaker 8 23:46

Yeah, I think so. But I think for me, when I connect with a find, it's sort of you could be holding something that's maybe not seen the light for I don't know a millennia, and you could sort of think like who was the last person that held this before you did. I think for me that's kind of like how I sort of think about it. I don't think I'm time travelling, but I'm like connecting.

Speaker 7 24:10

It's like connecting back in time, isn't it? You're not going back to that time, but you're you've got this connection with that person who lost it.

Speaker 10 24:16

Yeah, you're sort of united by this space you're sharing. Yeah, yeah. And so, um, what about places where to go?

Speaker 8 24:23

How do you find places to go detect? It really depends like where you've got permission to detect. So in the UK you need to have permission to mess with it. Um and well, we've got a lot of our land through friends and family, so I think that's always like a good place to start.

Speaker 7 24:40

But then in terms of like research, there's like old old maps, there's um you can look on Heritage England to see what archaeology has been found there before, and then you can try and like work backwards from that. So there's there's a lot of resources out there online to help you research the land once you've got it. But I agree, I think a personal connection for us has always been the best route to getting commission.

Speaker 10 25:02

And are there certain hotspots in the UK where peop where there's more people doing the detectoring than others?

Speaker 8 25:08

Oh, I think like what in southern England there's probably one bit more people.

Speaker 7 25:14

Well, hi historically, I think there's always been more people living in the south. So therefore, there's naturally a greater concentration of fines down there. Yeah. So um the Porto Antiquity scheme releases the treasure report every year, and um you get things, they kind of like rank the counties based on how much treasure's been found that year.

Speaker 9 25:32

Right.

Speaker 7 25:32

Norfolk traditionally ranks the highest all the time.

Speaker 9 25:34

Oh, that's interesting.

Speaker 7 25:35

Yeah, well, it's a good farming county, close to Europe, good connections, yeah. So it kind of makes sense. There's a lot of traffic and trade going through there.

Speaker 8 25:42

But then Lincolnshire is often, which is where we dig, third or second on the treasure tally.

Speaker 10 25:48

What does it keep switching with? Which is number two or three?

Speaker 8 25:51

Is it Cambridgeshire?

Speaker 10 25:52

Okay, that would make sense. That would make sense, okay.

Speaker 7 25:54

But yeah, people detect everywhere.

Speaker 10 25:57

And it's not just the UK, right? It's oh no, yeah. So do you have you then travelled somewhere overseas and tried it elsewhere?

Speaker 8 26:03

No, not yet. Like not yet, yeah. But we we've had offers offers to go to the continent. Nice, yeah. It really does depend on the country's laws, so that each country kind of has their own rules with vessel detecting. Yeah. Some places it is illegal to do it. Um, others you have to like the the state owns the fine all the fines.

Speaker 7 26:27

Okay, does have similar laws to us. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8 26:30

So like I think Denmark uh has similar laws to the U.S.

Speaker 10 26:35

So is that if you find it you have to split the if you've got you need permission, if you find it you and it's worth something, you split the how much over the owner or the status quo.

Speaker 7 26:44

I mean it does really depend on your own personal agreement with a landowner. Ah, okay. And then also obviously depends if that find you're finding is historically interesting or not.

Speaker 9 26:53

Right.

Speaker 7 26:53

So um, if it's treasure, then it's got to go through something called the treasure process, which is where it will be evaluated by the coroner, you've got to take it to your finance liaison officer, each county's got one. Wow. And then they kind of like work out whether or not it is treasure, whether or not a museum wants it. If a museum wants it, then half the value of it goes to you, half goes to the landowner. Okay. But for like the stuff which doesn't fall under treasure, it does depend on your own agreement. So we know friends who've got like it's up to a certain value. If anything's under that value, they get to keep it. If anything's over that value, they've got to give the farmer some money.

Speaker 10 27:27

I was gonna say, because one man's trash is another man's treasure. Oh exactly, yeah. I was excited because I found a weight. Like, but everyone else is like, that's not anything exciting at all, but yeah.

Speaker 7 27:37

Well, one of my favourites is finding the Roman the Roman coins, the grots, the Roman grots. Like third, fourth century coinage, they're everywhere, they're probably in literally every field in Britain. Really? They're worth like pence.

Speaker 10 27:48

But it's just exciting to find it.

Speaker 7 27:50

It's historically there.

Speaker 10 27:51

What's more exciting, the searching or the finding, or the researching afterwards?

Speaker 8 27:57

I think what I enjoy sort of like the thrill of the search and not knowing what's gonna come up, but LA definitely is into the history and research afterwards.

Speaker 7 28:08

Yeah, I feel like for me, there's two halves of metal as heading. There's the thrill of finding, and then there's the thrill of finding out what it is afterwards. And like all the research that comes after, I think it can be just as exciting as in the field. It's like reliving it all over again, but like finding out more.

Speaker 10 28:27

Was it traditionally a male kind of hobby, or has it always had women as well?

Speaker 7 28:31

Traditionally, looking back into like the 60s and the 70s when it started to become popular, I feel like it was a male-dominated hobby.

Speaker 8 28:37

But when we started, we definitely met women straight away.

Speaker 7 28:41

Yeah, it was a woman we met on that group dig where we were obsc completely swarmed by camouflage. Yeah. It was a woman who helped us on that dig, and she showed us what a pinpointer was and she she helped us to detect and like taught us a bit.

Speaker 8 28:53

But I think now we're sort of getting, I think there's more like younger people getting into the hobby, which I think that's where you're kind of seeing the demographic changing a bit more. But I think like women have always done it, but it's sort of I think it's more getting women's voices heard. Yeah, which is why.

Speaker 10 29:10

Which your book obviously is a good segue into that. So tell me what the book's about.

Speaker 7 29:15

So the book covers uh about roughly the first three years of us getting into metal detecting.

Speaker 8 29:20

Yeah, discovering the hobby and what we could find under our fate, really.

Speaker 7 29:25

All the mistakes we made, everything we learn, and um some of our favourite finds that we found as well. Amazing.

Speaker 10 29:31

And what do you hope people reading it will get from it? Do you do you want people who've never done it before to be inspired, or is it just you want them to learn more about the history? What do you think?

Speaker 7 29:40

There's multiple. Yeah, all of the above. Yeah, but you you nailed it. That was perfect. Yeah.

Speaker 8 29:46

Well I think kind of like what we've like done since the beginning is sort of introduced people to this hobby like through social media. And it's so nice when we get someone message and say, Oh, you've inspired me to like get a machine and give it a go. So yeah, I'm kind of hoping like with the book it might get other women, you know, out in the fields.

Speaker 10 30:06

And the final question I always ask guests on the Wander Woman podcast is whenever you travel around to go detectoring, what's the one piece of other than the obvious metal detector that you never go anywhere without? What's your one thing that you always take in your bag that might surprise people?

Speaker 7 30:21

Oh god, that's a hard one. For us, I think it's probably is it our camera? Oh, we're always filming. We've got all of our filming equipment as well as the detecting equipment.

Speaker 8 30:29

Yeah.

Speaker 10 30:30

Um is there any lucky charms or creature comforts that you always like to take?

Speaker 8 30:35

Well, I think this is a little bit different, but usually when I'm in the field, I'll pick up a little stone or a little something like that, and I'll just have it in my pocket. And sometimes I'll just like touch it for like a bit of oh bit of good luck or something. I do that as well with the pottery.

Speaker 7 30:50

That's something I've done since I was a child with pottery. I've always like like, you know, had a had a piece, and then like then that helps you find more. Yes, we can.

Speaker 8 30:58

And I'll just be in your pocket all day. Yeah. Like this little a little pebble. Like a fancy pebble. Yeah, fancy pebble.

Speaker 10 31:03

It grounds you back to it, it definitely grounds you back to it. Cool, thank you ever so much for being good to meet you.

Speaker 8 31:08

Thank you for having us.

Speaker 10 31:10

That was authors and detectorists Eleanor Bruce and Lucilla Grey, who I'm sure will have many of you googling metal detectors right now. I certainly enjoyed my day with them finding various items in a field I never thought I would. Do check out their book, Things We Found in the Ground, which is out now, as well as their website, romanfound.com. Now speaking of finds, earlier we saw what happened when I discovered a part of Japan not usually explored by tourists. So this episode I thought I'd dig a little deeper too. See what I did there? To find you more sites in Japan to check out that are much less well known than the classic golden triangle of Tokyo, Kyoto, and Osaka. Listen up.

10 Lesser known destination in Japan

Speaker 10 31:51

At 10, it's Ine in the Kyoto Prefecture. This little fishing village is known for Fun aya, traditional boat houses built on the water. And the best way to see them is from the water. Best of all, you can stay in the houses too.

Speaker 10 32:06

At 9, it's Hida Furukawa in Gifu. This is a beautifully preserved canal town near Takayama. This is where to find traditional sake breweries, waterways brimming with carp, and old merchant houses. It's an evocative glimpse into a way of life that isn't in a museum, but living and thriving in Japan.

Speaker 10 32:29

At eight, it's Shodoshima in Kagawa. It's a gorgeous and overlooked spot. The best way to explore is on bike, passing olive groves, popping into soy sauce breweries, and stopping at the beaches. Don't miss the incredible Kankakei Gorge and ropeway, if you dare.

Speaker 10 32:48

At seven, we're trundling along a little open-sided railway to be amazed at the Kurobe Gorge in Toyama. It's a great alternative to the busier alpine route, but you'll be treated to just as much scenery. The best time to go is in autumn when the colours explode along the valley.

Speaker 10 33:07

At six, we're climbing more than 1,000 steps to Yamadera, Yamagata, a mountain temple complex clinging to a forested hillside. It's well known in Japan, but often missed by tourists. Best approached slowly.

Speaker 10 33:22

At five, we're going off the map to the Oki Islands, an archipelago in the Sea of Japan. These remote volcanic isles offer drama at every turn. There are shrines on four of the 180 islands that are permanently inhabited. But it's the natural world, part of the UNESCO Global Geopark, that people come to see.

Speaker 10 33:42

At four, we’re going underground, kind of, in a huge limestone cave beneath a karst plateau in Yamaguchi. The Akiyoshido Cave and Akiyoshidai Plateau is an otherworldly scene among rolling grasslands. Explore the caves, but above land, bike is a brilliant way to explore it.

Speaker 10 34:04

At three, you won't quite believe you're in Japan at Tottori sand dunes, the largest dunes in the country on the Sea of Japan coast. It's a surreal sight, more like Namibia than Japan. Paraglining over it would be the ultimate way to explore. And in spring, you'll see the unlikely flowering of plants and blossoms.

Speaker 10 34:25

At two, it's Naoshima, Kagawe, known as the Art Island. This island in the Seto Inland Sea is known for its contemporary art, architecture, and outdoor installations. It is a little like a fever dream and unexpected, but it's incredible to see. Tie it up with visits to nearby Teshima and Inujima.

Speaker 10 34:47

And at one, it's Irimote Island in Okinawa. This is jungle Japan and one of the wildest feeling islands. Think mangroves, waterfalls, and rainforest. It's also the home of the elusive Irimote cat, an endemic and endangered wildcat found only here. Explore the island with guided jungle walks or by kayak. Enjoy!

Speaker 10 35:11

That was my top 10 slot, the part of the episode when I equip you with all you need to have an incredible adventure. Speaking of equipping, it's time for our much-loved gear

Gear: What to pack for tropical islands

Speaker 10 35:20

chat. And this time I'm looking at what kit you need to pack on a tropical island adventure, in case, for instance, you end up somewhere like the incredible Okinawa. Intrigued? Listen up! First up, let's talk clothing. This will need to be lightweight and crucially breathable. Think loose linen shirts, skirts, shorts and vests. Other natural fabrics that work well include bamboo and specialist wool like merino or lyocell, which is not only light and breathable, working well to naturally move sweat away from your skin, but also contains antibacterial properties that mean they are anti-sm too. Basically avoid anything man-made. Think polyester, nylon and acrylic, which in this environment will not be your friend.

Speaker 10 36:02

You'll of course need swimwear. Look for brands that use organic or recycled fabrics, and if bringing your own wetsuit and snorkel and fins, go for a truly sustainable brand such as Cornwall-based Fourth Element right here in the UK, who use petrol-free fabrics for all their underwater gear.

Speaker 10 36:18

For shoes, I'd opt for sliders. Easy to clean, easy on and off, and no chance of sand between the toes. They can also be dressed up or down, so have multi-functioning use. Also take a pair of lightweight trainers that are quick drying or walking shoes for exploring inland. I certainly love chasing waterfalls on Okinawa. And don't forget a jacket. Thin we'll do is it can and does get a little chilly in the evening in tropical places, and take an umbrella as sudden and heavy storms are a reality. Though they are often welcome, it means that you can easily and quickly protect any phones and cameras from the water.

Speaker 10 36:52

A quick dry towel is useful, as is a wide-brimmed hat. I'm a big fan of Crag Hopper's Ranger hat. And remember to check that your sunscreen is reef safe. And don't take their word for it. Look at the ingredients so that you can avoid oxybenzone, parabens, and tri clothesan. Then don't forget your sunglasses, as in addition to protecting your eyes from the sun, you do want to look cool as well.

Speaker 10 37:16

That was my monthly gear chat, the advice I offer every single episode that could make a real difference, not just to your experience, but to the environment too. Speaking of which, this month's hidden hero has dedicated the last few years of his life to doing just that.

Hidden Hero: Hiroshi "Kuma" Sato

Speaker 10 37:30

Hiroshi Kuma Sato's hometown, San Riku, was directly impacted by the 2011 tsunami from Japan's most powerful earthquake. At the time, he was working as a dive guide in Thailand, but returned home to provide his support with underwater recovery and cleanup efforts. It started with just him and one other, as he called the project San Riku Volunteer Divers. Today he focuses on seagrass bed restoration, seafloor cleanups, and marine habitat protection, and educates students and enlists divers and crucially fishermen to create the next wave of environmental advocates to help protect the ocean. I caught up with him in Japan to find out more.

Speaker 3 38:12

I began the our NPO. It was 15 years ago, just three months later, after tsunami hit my place. Yeah, we loaded up from the ocean.

Speaker 10 38:56

And it started off as two of you and some fishermen, but it grew. Tell me about that.

Speaker 3 39:01

Yeah, uh at the beginning it was only two, but um at now uh it's about more than 10,000 people coming and helping us.

Speaker 10 39:12

And how long did it take you to clear up after the tsunami?

Speaker 3 39:16

Yeah, it took about five years.

Speaker 10 39:19

Wow, and that was dives every day removing debris.

Speaker 3 39:22

Almost every day.

Speaker 10 39:24

Wow, that's incredible. And tell me a bit about what it looks like underwater post tsunami cleanup.

Speaker 3 39:30

Uh yeah, before cleanup, uh there are a lot of things house, cars, boats, everything. But now um there's no debris. Only seaweed and sea animals.

Speaker 10 39:47

And did you you've been doing some planting, is that right, of the of the seagrass and seaweed? When did that start? How far are we into that project?

Speaker 3 39:55

Ah yeah. We started planting seaweed. Uh it was about seven years ago we started. And we are planting uh eel grass and kelp and sargastin, like that.

Speaker 10 40:11

And how long did that take for you to see visually a noticeable difference?

Speaker 3 40:16

Um was yeah, it took about three years. Now we can see the three generations baby and brother and parent.

Speaker 10 40:28

And what has been the reaction to the community of the area since you've been doing your project?

Speaker 3 40:33

Yeah, um our hometown, uh, there are a lot of fishermen, so they're very happy now because uh they can take avalone and sea urchins and fishes.

Speaker 10 40:46

And you said when you were talking to us yesterday, how normally people think of divers over here and fishermen over here. How did you bridge that gap? How did you start working together?

Speaker 3 40:57

Yeah, um uh before tsunami uh fishermen think uh the diver is a poacher, but now uh we have a big uh strong bond because we worked together uh to clean up the ocean.

Speaker 10 41:14

And you were also saying about how that once you did the cleanup it you sort of thought, oh that's finished, it's all done. But actually it was the problem with the aquaculture. Can you tell me about that? What happened?

Speaker 3 41:25

Yeah, um we we finished the cleaning the ocean, but the there is new uh problems coming. Um the water temperature is getting higher, so the seaweed is gone, and the sea urchins died, fish is gone, so the big problems happen.

Speaker 10 41:47

And how did you work together with the fishermen to help solve those problems?

Speaker 3 41:51

Yeah. Um we are trying to replant and plant the new uh kind of seaweed to the deeper side, yeah. And uh growing the baby of seaweed together. Yeah.

Speaker 10 42:07

And have you noticed the difference? Has that helped?

Speaker 3 42:09

Yeah, uh it makes a big difference.

Speaker 10 42:13

Um now we can see about um three hectare is and with the restoration of the seagrass and the seaweed, have you noticed more people being inspired to come and see what's going on?

Speaker 3 42:27

Yes, um now uh a lot of people, especially students, young people come into our town and get a diving license for uh replanting the seaweed.

Speaker 10 42:41

Ah, they want to come and help be part of the regeneration.

Speaker 3 42:44

Yes.

Speaker 10 42:45

And how long do you think this project will take? Is it a forever ongoing, evolving project, or do you have an end date?

Speaker 3 42:52

Yeah. Uh now I'm 52 years old now. Um, so I have to educate new generation, and there are um some groups uh already. Uh there are two places. Yeah. Yeah. There are uh two groups already, young people's diverse association.

Speaker 10 43:12

So you've passed on and do you how do you think everything's gonna go? Because you've mentioned obviously climate change, the rising temperatures, and the seawater. Um you said you found species up where you live that shouldn't be there, is that right? That's normal you'd see in Okinawa.

Speaker 3 43:27

Uh yeah. Uh some fish is coming from Okinawa. So we could we can see we could see the tropical fish. Uh it was two years ago, three years ago. A lot of tropical fish come into Pohoku region. Wow. And we took the a lot of pictures of them.

Speaker 10 43:45

Yeah.

Speaker 3 43:45

We're surprised at that.

Speaker 10 43:47

And what's the because we're fighting climate change and rapidly rising temperatures, what's the one thing that you feel you can do to help mitigate that?

Speaker 3 43:57

Yeah, I think uh it's very difficult. to change quickly, but we have to adapt uh uh we have to change our style um to replant uh another species another um sea grasses uh yeah so which we are trying to change the species now um prant planting new seaweeds now you're feeling positive about the future with the next generation that are coming yes yes I think so uh because we can make the difference now so yeah young people are coming um much more than before so the sea grassive field is bet is getting bigger and bigger large and large so we can make a difference for the future.

Speaker 10 44:52

That was this episode's Hidden Hero, the person doing amazing things in their community for their community and the wider world too. I think you'll agree that Kuma is very deserving of his Sea Hero accolade.

Wander Woman Of The Month - Sarashina

Speaker 10 45:04

And just like that it's near the end of the episode so nearly time for me to reveal my inspiring Wander Woman of the month. I hope you've enjoyed what you've heard. Please do subscribe so that you never miss an episode and please please please do leave a review. It means so very much. You can follow me on Instagram at Phoebe R Smith or go to my website phoebensmith.com where you can sign up for my occasional newsletter and of course send me a message. Now this episode we continue our exploration of Japan but this time rather than the present day we are heading back in time to the 11th century to find the origins of one of the world's earliest travel writers

Speaker 10 45:45

Takasue no Musume opened a slit in the silk curtains of her sedan chair. Through it she saw the green hills that looked like a great cloth of brocade and waterfalls that bubbled like drops of crystal. Of Mount Fuji she wrote it has most unusual shape and seems to have been painted deep blue. Its thick cover of unmelting snow gives the impression that the mountain is wearing a white jacket over a dress of deep violet. Takasue No Musume's prose and her poetic style resonate today. These are analogies we understand and we can appreciate the tilt of the rhythm, all the more remarkable perhaps that they were written almost 1,000 years ago by a woman in old age who had eskewed the trappings of the ancient Japanese court for a life of travel and adventure. By some she is described as the first travel writer but by the high school children of Japan who study her diaries she is lauded as a great writer whose work is added to the library of the great Japanese writers of any age. Her legacy informs how people write today about travel and that is a remarkable feat for a girl raised in the back of beyond even further than the end of the road to the East Country how rustic and odd I must have been she wrote.

Speaker 10 47:12

Rustic and odd well maybe she lived in a period when women were expected to stay at home mostly behind a sliding door. Takasue no Musume did not do that. She spent her life gently pushing the boundaries and enjoying what she loved the most travel. Her love for travel was ingrained around the age of 12 or 13 as she travelled with her father, Sugawara no Takasue. It's perhaps apt given it was her father who inspired her love of travelling. But Takasue no Musume means daughter of Takasue. No one knows her real name although she is sometimes called Lady Sarashina. Sarashina is a region of Japan but her most famous book is called Sarashina Niki or the Sarashina Diary. And it is from this diary that we have incredible detail of her life and life in Japan in the early 11th century.

Speaker 10 48:14

Lady Sarashina was born in Kyoto in 1008 to a mid-ranking official and her mother who was the sister of another famous diary writer of that period. As her father moved around Japan she started recording her reflections in a diary. These scribblings would later feed into the Sarashina diary which recorded her life from the age of 12 into her 50s. The Heian period is a division of Japanese history running from 794 to 1185. It means peace and was a time of great cultural expansion. This was a time of poetry and writing art and calligraphy arguably the first ever novel came from this period The Tale of Genji written by a noble woman and akin to the importance of Shakespeare.

Speaker 10 49:08

On her return to Kyoto she longed to travel asking her mother if she could be accompanied on a pilgrimage but her mother feared bandits, high mountain passes and well all manner of things forbade her. In her thirties she went to work as a lady in waiting to one of the royal princesses in the imperial court. She married at 36 a government worker called Tachibana Toshimich. Together they had three children but she never lost her wanderlust and as the children got older she increased her travelling.

Speaker 10 49:40

She travelled the country in a sedan and wrote and wrote and wrote she was part of a movement led by women that defined the Japanese language today. Literature of the time written by men was a Japanese-Chinese hybrid and today is only read by a few scholars. Female literature however was written in pure Japanese which was then considered soft and feminine. Some academics also believe that she wrote two more classics of heian texts: , Hamamatsu Chūnagon Monogatari and Yoru no Nezame stories of courtly romance that she would have certainly seen. It was a time when personal names were kept secret.

Speaker 10 50:25

In the texts we know were hers, we know that Takasue no Musume or Lady Sarashina wrote beautifully poetically and with joy. She also had a hand in changing Japanese literature. We've gone a long way back in history to celebrate the Wander Women, the overlooked women who have changed the trajectory of travel conservation art and writing but we've never travelled as far back as the 11th century in Japan when Takasue no Musume took to her sedan chair looking for a life of adventure and literature of hills like a row of beautifully painted folding screens and waves seen through a forest that seemed to strike across the ends of the pine branches and shone like jewels. Perhaps next time I'll summon my sedan...

Speaker 10 51:16

That was my inspiring Wander Woman of the month, the traveller whose name is lost in the history books purely because of her gender. I hope that when you find yourself in Japan you will think of Sarashina and of course tell your friends all about her. On the next episode of the Wander Woman Podcast, I journey to the underexplored Canadian province of Saskatchewan to take a stroll in the prairies on the hunt to find dinosaur fossils, the ominously named mass extinction boundary, hearth sites and teepee rings from the indigenous ancestors, bison drive lanes and the bison themselves. You fancy coming with me? See you next time, Wander Woman out.

Speaker 10 51:53

The Wander Woman Podcast is written and produced by me Phoebe Smith. The editor and writer of additional material is Daniel Nielsen. The logo was designed by John Summerton. A final shout out to all the people I met on my journey and were willing to talk to me. It's because of you that this episode was able to happen at all.